Uncle George Posted 18 May , 2016 Share Posted 18 May , 2016 Here's a revealing pen portrait. Who is he ? ? ? "The [General] whom I met that afternoon was a very serious man. Every line of his face, and I have seldom seen a face more deeply furrowed, showed the tremendous strain through which he had passed. The [...] offensive had ended in a glorious triumph [...], but the man who had directed that operation showed, in his deep-set, harassed eyes, and in his sharply drawn face, the suffering and the anxiety which it had caused him. Do not think that [he] is a soldier of flint-like soul, who stolidly would throw his thousands of [...] boys at German machine-guns. The man whom I [met] that afternoon was a man who had sounded the depths." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khaki Posted 18 May , 2016 Share Posted 18 May , 2016 General Horace Smith-Dorrien ? or maybe Rawlinson khaki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle George Posted 18 May , 2016 Share Posted 18 May , 2016 General Horace Smith-Dorrien ? khaki No, not him. [EDIT - and not Rawlinson.] "The cheek-bones are not prominent, the jaw is particularly strong, and the lips are sharply chiselled and rather thin. [His] neck is solid, and, particularly in the profile, is very wide, and his head is set in his shoulders with a very unusual appearance of power. Indeed, I have never seen an arrangement of head, neck and shoulders which has suggested greater strength and force." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khaki Posted 18 May , 2016 Share Posted 18 May , 2016 'Bull' Allenby khaki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle George Posted 18 May , 2016 Share Posted 18 May , 2016 'Bull' Allenby khaki No, sorry. "As [he] listened, or talked, his eyes were raised to the staff officer standing opposite; his eyebrows also, which, by the way, were very pale, were raised; and the strong light from the desk lamp accentuated the deep, vertical cuts in [his] cheeks. The nose is slightly aquiline, and rather distinguished; the eyes are a light grey-blue with a little suggestion of brown - eyes which sometimes are called hazel. His brow is particularly full and round, with furrows that are well defined, and his ears are a bit pointed, and differ a trifle in their angle from the head." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khaki Posted 18 May , 2016 Share Posted 18 May , 2016 My last shot before I move to Roman Generals will be 'Hamilton' khaki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knotty Posted 18 May , 2016 Share Posted 18 May , 2016 UG Is there a opening clue in "revealing pen portraits" which might refer to the book by Joseph Cummings Chase "Soldiers all, portraits and sketches of men of the AEF"? John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle George Posted 18 May , 2016 Share Posted 18 May , 2016 My last shot before I move to Roman Generals will be 'Hamilton' khaki No again. But, funny you should say that ... "Some one has said that he looks like a Roman. Certain of our generals look like Englishmen - General Harts, for example. Others look like Frenchmen; one or two of them even resemble Germans. But I cannot apply the word Englishman, Frenchman, German or even Roman to General Pershing. His face and figure suggest only one nationality; he is simply, distinctively United States." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle George Posted 18 May , 2016 Share Posted 18 May , 2016 UG Is there a opening clue in "revealing pen portraits" which might refer to the book by Joseph Cummings Chase "Soldiers all, portraits and sketches of men of the AEF"? John You are right. https://archive.org/stream/soldiersallportr00chasrich#page/n5/mode/2up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knotty Posted 18 May , 2016 Share Posted 18 May , 2016 It's a very good book, I don't have a "proper" copy but I do have like you the digital copy in my folder, with Pershing as the first image John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Ridgus Posted 20 May , 2016 Share Posted 20 May , 2016 It's quiet...too quiet... Having reached 200 pages on WIT the sequel, I thought we might like to dip into the 330 pages of WIT 1 and come up with some greatest hits that might stretch the current Inmates So how about these two lovelies. Originally posted by Stoppage Drill David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knotty Posted 20 May , 2016 Share Posted 20 May , 2016 Hi David It has been quiet,so I have spent now an enjoyable hour or more on these two,finally coming up with Joseph O'Sullivan and Reginald Dunne both WW1 veterans and members of the IRA who killed Field Marshal Sir Henry Wilson 22/6/1922,caught, tried, found guilty and hanged on 16/8/1922 John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Ridgus Posted 21 May , 2016 Share Posted 21 May , 2016 John. Right in every detail as always. I will put some more up later, after the Saturday chores! David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Ridgus Posted 21 May , 2016 Share Posted 21 May , 2016 A WWAW These three pictures all claim to be something that only only one of them can be. What is their claim and which do you think is correct? David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khaki Posted 21 May , 2016 Share Posted 21 May , 2016 Lord Kitchener, I think the center photo was the last known before his death. khaki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Ridgus Posted 21 May , 2016 Share Posted 21 May , 2016 Lord Kitchener, I think the center photo was the last known before his death. khaki khaki In fact they are all claimed, either in books or in the extensive library, to be the last photo before his death. My own view is that of the three the one you have identified is likely to be it. The other two seem to be the same scene photographed from both ships. The first one is normally captioned as Jellicoe greets Kitchener as he boards Iron Duke from HMS Oak. The third one is sometimes captioned as Kitchener boarding HMS Hampshire after the meeting with Jellicoe. Elsewhere it is said to be him boarding Iron Duke. If you look at the three men around the gangplank in the third picture they appear to be the same three as in picture one: just a few moments later. The middle picture is also often wrongly captioned. It is often cropped and called Kitchener and Jellicoe tour Iron Duke. However in fact Kitchener is walking with the ship's captain Frederic Dyer. Jellicoe is in the background emerging on deck: Neverthless in the absence of any photographs of him leaving Iron Duke, presumably this is, as claimed, the last image of K of K on 5th June 1916. I await correction from more knowledgable Forum Pals!! David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knotty Posted 21 May , 2016 Share Posted 21 May , 2016 Sorry David, I was to busy watching Jutland to pick this one up, looking forward to resuming asap. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Ridgus Posted 21 May , 2016 Share Posted 21 May , 2016 What did you think of the programme? I must admit I thought it tried a bit too hard to seem ground breaking. I think the view of Beatty as an unreliable witness and a poor commander; Jellicoe as a cautious man who realised to 'win' he only had to avoid defeat; and the fact that it was the magazine exploding sank Indefatiguable, would hardly seem surprising conclusions to anyone who had read anything on the subject. I thought the only real revelation was on the circumstances of Indefatiguable's sinking. I was also slightly surprised they didn't make more of Jellicoe's deployment order which was made with only the sketchy information he had from Beatty. It has been called the most significant single command decision of the war, and he got it right. I thought his grandson would have puffed that a bit more. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knotty Posted 21 May , 2016 Share Posted 21 May , 2016 Hi David Never really "studied" Jutland only read the general synopsis and views expressed, but there were one or two minor points that I was unaware of and I was surprised that there was the conclusion that Beatty had influenced doctoring the documents to show him in a better light. The conjecture that the Indefatigable had carried on going for 7 minutes without crew (alive) was interesting, but if the stern had been blown off, surely that scenario would have been looked at previously when trying to find the stern, rather than waiting till it was found then explain why it was 500 metres from where it was found in relation to the main body of the wreck. Need to watch it again before I understand exactly what happened. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Ridgus Posted 21 May , 2016 Share Posted 21 May , 2016 Beatty's use of his position as 1SL to distort the postwar reporting of the battle was acknowledged almost from the moment he did it. Here, for instance, is a brief extract from the extensive library: 'After the war a report of the battle was prepared by the Admiralty under First Sea Lord Rosslyn Wemyss. Before the report was published, Beatty was himself appointed First Sea Lord, and immediately requested amendments to the report. When the authors refused to comply, he ordered it to be destroyed and instead had prepared an alternative report, which proved highly critical of Jellicoe. Considerable argument broke out as a result, with significant numbers of servicemen disputing the published version, including Admiral Reginald Bacon who wrote his own book about the battle, criticising the version sponsored by Beatty and highly critical of Beatty's own part in the battle' Sorry, my objective historian's mask is slipping to reveal my true colours as a strong supporter of Jellicoe. I am all for his grandson's attempts to improve his reputation I just don't think tonight's programme quite did that quest justice David PS Anyway, before the Mods nobble me for drifting off topic here's another greatest hit from WIT? mark 1. First posted by Tom Morgan. As Tom said first time round, this fellow looks worried, and with good reason David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knotty Posted 22 May , 2016 Share Posted 22 May , 2016 Morning Slightly of topic but would that be Tom Morgan of Hellfire Corner website? John As its a question about a person involved I think I'm on topic with a sub WIT question ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fattyowls Posted 22 May , 2016 Share Posted 22 May , 2016 Beatty's use of his position as 1SL to distort the postwar reporting of the battle was acknowledged almost from the moment he did it. Here, for instance, is a brief extract from the extensive library: 'After the war a report of the battle was prepared by the Admiralty under First Sea Lord Rosslyn Wemyss. Before the report was published, Beatty was himself appointed First Sea Lord, and immediately requested amendments to the report. When the authors refused to comply, he ordered it to be destroyed and instead had prepared an alternative report, which proved highly critical of Jellicoe. Considerable argument broke out as a result, with significant numbers of servicemen disputing the published version, including Admiral Reginald Bacon who wrote his own book about the battle, criticising the version sponsored by Beatty and highly critical of Beatty's own part in the battle' Sorry, my objective historian's mask is slipping to reveal my true colours as a strong supporter of Jellicoe. I am all for his grandson's attempts to improve his reputation I just don't think tonight's programme quite did that quest justice I've got this on disk to watch, and I'm currently trying to summarise Jutland in an article based on HMS Invincible so this is v relevant for me. Thank you shipmates. Pete. P.S. I like the idea of recycling from the original thread; still can't remember who they are however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Ridgus Posted 22 May , 2016 Share Posted 22 May , 2016 Morning Slightly of topic but would that be Tom Morgan of Hellfire Corner website? John As its a question about a person involved I think I'm on topic with a sub WIT question It is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Ridgus Posted 22 May , 2016 Share Posted 22 May , 2016 I've got this on disk to watch, and I'm currently trying to summarise Jutland in an article based on HMS Invincible so this is v relevant for me. Thank you shipmates. Pete. Well I fear you may not find the programme of much direct use because one of the surprising omissions was that it did not mention Invincible at all David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knotty Posted 22 May , 2016 Share Posted 22 May , 2016 Hi David After combing through the military, and turning to political, my picture database got me to the letter E, and I have him as Matthias Erzberger, a signatory of the Armistice and holder of various post in both pre and post war Germany. John Just done a quick review of Jutland recording and your correct no mention of the Invincible! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now