Who is This ? ? ?

[Uncle George]

3 hours ago, Fattyowls said:

 

It is probably close to two decades since I was last there, as it is not a place that British visitors are likely to pass. (Name dropper alert!) However I went to Verdun with Martin Middlebrook and Mike Hodgson several times in the 90's ...

 

It really is rather bad form to name-drop. I was saying this to Colin Pearce* just the other day.

 

 

* you won't have heard of him.

[Fattyowls]

43 minutes ago, Uncle George said:

It really is rather bad form to name-drop.

 

The Duchess of Cambridge said exactly that to me only last week. I am a cad and a bounder as most of the longer standing inmates of Wit? are well aware.

 

Pete.

[Fattyowls]

3 hours ago, neverforget said:

Great stuff Pete. My son and I plan to visit the Somme and Verdun areas on our next visit, so the stone will be taken in as well, and I will pass on your comments to him. 

 

If I can be of any assistance in any capacity please let me know. It's far too long since I was last there (2001 I think), but I can remember most of the locations. Assisting in the planning of your last trip was good fun as I remember and I'm sure the chums will be keen to help again.

 

Pete.

[neverforget]

11 minutes ago, Fattyowls said:

 

If I can be of any assistance in any capacity please let me know. It's far too long since I was last there (2001 I think), but I can remember most of the locations. Assisting in the planning of your last trip was good fun as I remember and I'm sure the chums will be keen to help again.

 

Pete.

That`s very kind of you Pete, and totally in keeping with your ever-helpful and altruistic personality.

As you will remember, my last trip was also my first, and so the overwhelming amount of help and advice I received from so many forum pals was absolutely invaluable. I would have been completely lost without it.

My next trip will hopefully be next year at some point, and as I mentioned, will be a Verdun and Somme based trip, but we will almost certainly be shooting back up to Ypres again too or it just wouldn`t feel right. 

Cheers.

[David Ridgus]

45 minutes ago, Fattyowls said:

 

The Duchess of Cambridge said exactly that to me only last week. I am a cad and a bounder as most of the longer standing inmates of Wit? are well aware.

 

Pete.

Oh so Hollywood royalty no longer good enough for you. What will Ms Cotillard say?

 

David

Edited 12 April , 2017 by David Ridgus

[neverforget]

Been looking through my files for a Frenchie we haven`t yet had, and I think this Monsieur fits the bill. His career spanned both bouts of unpleasantness,

[neverforget]

I love this chap. He just wants to fight the Bosche. 

No pressure Mr. Owls but he`s a Verdun vet`, wounded several times.

In round 2 he refused to accept or comply with France`s surrender, and was imprisoned.

He broke out of jail to continue the fight.

[Guest]

   Technical correction here:   What do you mean "both bouts of unpleasantness" ?  We're still on the first

 

Stock Image

1000 Years of Annoying the French

Stephen Clarke

Published by Black Swan 20/01/2011 (2011)

ISBN 10: 0552775746 ISBN 13: 9780552775748

Used

[Uncle George]

1 hour ago, neverforget said:

I love this chap. He just wants to fight the Bosche. 

No pressure Mr. Owls but he`s a Verdun vet`, wounded several times.

In round 2 he refused to accept or comply with France`s surrender, and was imprisoned.

He broke out of jail to continue the fight.

 

Is he Alphonse Juin?

[neverforget]

4 minutes ago, Uncle George said:

 

Is he Alphonse Juin?

He isn't Uncle G. 

He survived both wars and retired in the 50s. Later he was called back up to preside as judge against fellow officers, but rather than doing so he took his own life.

[Uncle George]

13 minutes ago, neverforget said:

. Later he was called back up to preside as judge against fellow officers, but rather than doing so he took his own life.

 

Algeria?

[neverforget]

14 minutes ago, Uncle George said:

 

Algeria?

Algeria is very relevant, yes.

Just edited to avoid any confusion.

There was a very controversial incident that occurred in France, but the incident that prompted his suicide did indeed occur in Algeria. Apologies for any confusion there.

Edited 12 April , 2017 by neverforget

[Knotty]

Was it the "Putsch des généraux" of 1961, planned in Algeria, where the object was to overthrow De Gaulle and set up a military dictatorship?

 

John

[Fattyowls]

Is it Jean de Lattre de Tassigny?

 

Pete.

[neverforget]

12 minutes ago, Knotty said:

Was it the "Putsch des généraux" of 1961, planned in Algeria, where the object was to overthrow De Gaulle and set up a military dictatorship?

 

John

This was the incident referred to yes.

 

Just now, Fattyowls said:

Is it Jean de Lattre de Tassigny?

 

Pete.

No Pete, sorry. 

[neverforget]

Another hint/reminder:

He was heavily involved in the controversial incident in France at the end of the 2nd War, but not the incident at Algiers in 1961 that he was called to judge upon.

[Fattyowls]

Feared not, wrong shaped nose (M. de Lattre de Tassigny's rather than mine). How about Edgard de Larminat?

 

Pete

[neverforget]

2 minutes ago, Fattyowls said:

Feared not, wrong shaped nose (M. de Lattre de Tassigny's rather than mine). How about Edgard de Larminat?

 

Pete

Spot on the nose Mr. Owls. Well played. 

Interesting character I thought. 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edgard_de_Larminat

 

 

[Fattyowls]

I was thinking that the clue about Verdun might qualify for a runners up prize in the Daniel/Phoebus Arcane Clue Awards. Because close to 70% of the French Army went through Verdun in 1916 due to Petain's "noria" system, where he rotated divisions in and out quicky before they were ground down by the mill on the Meuse, many of the dramatis personae of the WW2 French army fought there. Even Admiral Darlan fought at Verdun; as a naval gunner he undertook counterbattery fire with long range guns, directed by flash spotting. The massive German siege guns were so big they weren't very mobile. That said for much of the time 'fought at Verdun' is not an accurate term, endured is better. There are stories of units doing two and three turns in the front line at Verdun without ever seeing a German.

 

Pete.

[neverforget]

7 hours ago, Fattyowls said:

I was thinking that the clue about Verdun might qualify for a runners up prize in the Daniel/Phoebus Arcane Clue Awards. Because close to 70% of the French Army went through Verdun in 1916 due to Petain's "noria" system, where he rotated divisions in and out quicky before they were ground down by the mill on the Meuse, many of the dramatis personae of the WW2 French army fought there. Even Admiral Darlan fought at Verdun; as a naval gunner he undertook counterbattery fire with long range guns, directed by flash spotting. The massive German siege guns were so big they weren't very mobile. That said for much of the time 'fought at Verdun' is not an accurate term, endured is better. There are stories of units doing two and three turns in the front line at Verdun without ever seeing a German.

 

Pete.

Fair comment Pete, even taking into account your expertise on the subject I should have thought of that. Sorry to put unfair pressure on you in that respect, it was quite remiss of me.? I will bear this in mind next time. Cheers pal.?

[Fattyowls]

On 13/04/2017 at 06:48, neverforget said:

Fair comment Pete, even taking into account your expertise on the subject I should have thought of that. Sorry to put unfair pressure on you in that respect, it was quite remiss of me.? I will bear this in mind next time. Cheers pal.?

 

NF, no criticism intended and certainly not remiss, it was an interesting search anyway. I'd not come across him before, and comparing the clue with some of Daniel's classics is high praise believe me. As I was thinking about Verdun in relation to GUEST's original point about Suippes it gave me a chance to rabbit a bit more about it. As for pressure, fair or unfair it will do me no harm at all, I am a lazy neredowell at the best of times.

 

Pete.

[neverforget]

Does anyone recognise this family???

The son was a cause célèbre, and his half-brother, seen here;

a tory politician and army commander in WW1. 

A common ancestor for all of them was a well known painter. 

 

[neverforget]

7 minutes ago, Fattyowls said:

 

NF, no criticism intended and certainly not remiss, it was an interesting search anyway. I'd not come across him before, and comparing the clue with some of Daniel's classics is high praise believe me. As I was thinking about Verdun in relation to M. Voltaire's original point about Suippes it gave me a chance to rabbit a bit more about it. As for pressure, fair or unfair it will do me no harm at all, I am a lazy neredowell at the best of times.

 

Pete.

Pete, your gentle chastisement was taken in good humour, and was a necessary reminder for me.

Best regards. n.

[Fattyowls]

On 13/04/2017 at 08:25, neverforget said:

Pete, your gentle chastisement was taken in good humour, and was a necessary reminder for me.

Best regards. n.

 

Always assume I'm 'avin a larf as they may well say out GUEST's way.

 

Pete.

[David Ridgus]

11 minutes ago, neverforget said:

Does anyone recognise this family???

The son was a cause célèbre, and his half-brother, seen here;

a tory politician and army commander in WW1. 

A common ancestor for all of them was a well known painter. 

 

 

NF

 

I love the school hols, I finally get a chance to be in on the ground floor of a WIT I actually know. This is George Archer Shee, whose dramatic story was turned into the play The Winslow Boy by Terence Rattigan. That whether or not a naval cadet had pinched a postal order should be raised in the Commons during a debate on the Navsl Estimates has got to be one of the most surreal episodes of the Edwardian era. So sad that having left the navy he enlisted in the Army and was killed at First Ypres aged just 19.

 

David

Edited 13 April , 2017 by David Ridgus