Who is This ? ? ?

[neverforget]

26 minutes ago, Uncle George said:

 

Is he William Ward Odell? KIA 1917.

Indeed so Uncle George. Impressive spot.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Odell

Took Grace's wicket in his first match. 

The story continues; 

Picture and account taken from:

[David Ridgus]

19 hours ago, neverforget said:

Tibby Cotter. One of the "Big Six".

Aussie fast bowler who walloped W.G. Grace (the doctor) with one of his famous chucks. 

 

I think you are being a little unfair to Cotter NF. His action was certainly odd for the time but only because he was a Jeff Thomson type of slinger. However I don't think the legality was ever questioned. It was Ernie Jones (another Grace-botherer, 'Sorry Doctor it slipped') who was the real chucker.

 

Although Cotter was the only Aussie Test cricketer killed in the war many of the great post war team fought. We had a series of their pictures early on in the thread with some fascinating stories attached. Might well be worth a rerun

 

David

[Uncle George]

This scruffy shower are serving British Officers in 1916. Who are they and what on earth is going on ? ? ?

 

Clue - they would belong in the old 'First' sub-theme of days gone by.

 

Image from 'Internet Archive', "a non-profit digital library offering free universal access to books, movies & music."

[neverforget]

41 minutes ago, David Ridgus said:

 

I think you are being a little unfair to Cotter NF. His action was certainly odd for the time but only because he was a Jeff Thomson type of slinger. However I don't think the legality was ever questioned. It was Ernie Jones (another Grace-botherer, 'Sorry Doctor it slipped') who was the real chucker.

 

Although Cotter was the only Aussie Test cricketer killed in the war many of the great post war team fought. We had a series of their pictures early on in the thread with some fascinating stories attached. Might well be worth a rerun

 

David

No offence meant David. I'm not really au fait with cricketing terms so my use of the word can be "dismissed?" as ignorance. I read that he was regarded as something of a slinger, and that it was a full toss that wounded W.G.G. and the term chuck just came off the top of my head. 

Another interesting slant on the circumstances of his death here:

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/in-depth/anzac-day/wwi-death-of-test-hero-albert-tibby-cotter-revealed/news-story/6d86bacde0f5bc84ce5cae292b2c8833

Edited 3 May , 2017 by neverforget

[neverforget]

27 minutes ago, Uncle George said:

This scruffy shower are serving British Officers in 1916. Who are they and what on earth is going on ? ? ?

 

Clue - they would belong in the old 'First' sub-theme of days gone by.

 

Image from 'Internet Archive', "a non-profit digital library offering free universal access to books, movies & music."

No idea, but the more I look at the picture the more interesting it becomes. 

We have what looks like a peaky blinder standing central, and at least one who seems to be doing his best not to be identified. An uneducated guess would be some kind of navy lark.

[Fattyowls]

Are they members of the Shackleton expedition following their escape from the icy wastes?

 

Pete.

[Uncle George]

12 minutes ago, neverforget said:

No idea, but the more I look at the picture the more interesting it becomes. 

We have what looks like a peaky blinder standing central, and at least one who seems to be doing his best not to be identified. An uneducated guess would be some kind of navy lark.

 

Navy lark - yes. Trying not to be identified - yes.

 

4 minutes ago, Fattyowls said:

Are they members of the Shackleton expedition following their escape from the icy wastes?

 

Pete.

 

No.

[neverforget]

Are they sub-mariners?

[Uncle George]

16 minutes ago, neverforget said:

Are they sub-mariners?

 

They are not.

 

Here's a heavy clue - one of the desperadoes in another photograph.

 

Image from 'Internet Archive,' "a non-profit digital library offering free universal access to books, movies & music."

[neverforget]

50 minutes ago, Uncle George said:

 

They are not.

 

Here's a heavy clue - one of the desperadoes in another photograph.

 

Image from 'Internet Archive,' "a non-profit digital library offering free universal access to books, movies & music."

If I have nailed this, I am going to mark it down as one of my most satisfying solves ever. 

I think I spotted a VC being sported here, and so working down the list of 117 WW1 Naval VCs, the first officer that wasn't either a posthumous winner, submariner or Nasmith is Gordon Campbell. 

When reading the account of his action the penny finally dropped, as he was commander of a Q ship; HMS Farnborough. Presumably, if I am correct, the first picture is the crew mentioned in the citation. 

I say "if" because the picture that you posted doesn't look much like the picture of him given on his Wiki page here; https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gordon_Campbell_(Royal_Navy_officer)

If I'm wrong then it's a case of back to working my way down the list like a dog with a bone as they say. 

[Uncle George]

9 hours ago, neverforget said:

If I have nailed this, I am going to mark it down as one of my most satisfying solves ever. 

I think I spotted a VC being sported here, and so working down the list of 117 WW1 Naval VCs, the first officer that wasn't either a posthumous winner, submariner or Nasmith is Gordon Campbell. 

When reading the account of his action the penny finally dropped, as he was commander of a Q ship; HMS Farnborough. Presumably, if I am correct, the first picture is the crew mentioned in the citation. 

I say "if" because the picture that you posted doesn't look much like the picture of him given on his Wiki page here; https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gordon_Campbell_(Royal_Navy_officer)

If I'm wrong then it's a case of back to working my way down the list like a dog with a bone as they say. 

 

Very well played, sir!

 

A (well worth reading) account of Campbell, the 'Farnborough', Q Ships, can be found here:

 

https://archive.org/stream/qshipstheirstory00chat#page/n7/mode/2up

 

I see in this book and in the Wikipedia page on the 'Farnborough'

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Farnborough

 

that the tramp steamer 'Lodorer' was converted into a Q Ship (and renamed) at Devonport Dockyard. In which case my Great Uncle Frederick Moore (1893-1982) probably worked on her: we know from his (unpublished) memoirs that working on Q Ships at the Yard was his role during the GW.

 

Uncle Fred.

 

Edited 4 May , 2017 by Uncle George

[Uncle George]

I meant to add that the sinking of the 'U-68' by the 'Farnborough' in 1916 was the first successful sinking by depth charge.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depth_charge

[Fattyowls]

Excellent post UG and outstanding detective work NF. I'd completely forgotten about Q ships but I should have followed the clues. Like the school crossing attendant stealing from work, the signs were all there.

 

Pete.

[Fattyowls]

Who is this then?

[Uncle George]

No cap. White shorts above left shoulder? Is this from a football team photo?

 

If so, how about a clue? Say, the shirt colour. At this point I would value NO comments on Argyle's away strip last year.

[johnboy]

His partner was Dempsey and loved mints?

[Knotty]

2 hours ago, johnboy said:

His partner was Dempsey and loved mints?

 

That would probably make him Harry Makepeace (John William Henry), 1881-1952, who was one of only 12 English double international players (football/cricket). 

[neverforget]

6 hours ago, Uncle George said:

 

 

 

I see in this book that the tramp steamer 'Lodorer' was converted into a Q Ship (and renamed) at Devonport Dockyard. In which case my Great Uncle Frederick Moore (1893-1982) probably worked on her: we know from his (unpublished) memoirs that working on Q Ships at the Yard was his role during the GW.

 

Uncle Fred.

 

 

 

 

Just surfaced for my last of four nightshifts. 

Wow ! You're so fortunate to have such memoirs. Most of us only have our imagination to guide us through our realitives' experiences.

Great post Uncle George. 

[Uncle George]

1 hour ago, neverforget said:

Just surfaced for my last of four nightshifts. 

Wow ! You're so fortunate to have such memoirs. Most of us only have our imagination to guide us through our realitives' experiences.

Great post Uncle George. 

 

I remember Uncle Fred very well, but alas have only seen a few pages of his memoirs. They are kept by his Grandson, my second cousin, to whom they are very precious, and who, very understandably, guards them jealously. 

 

I've posted the attached on the Forum before now. They are from my own collection. Fred wanted to join the Army in 1914 (his three brothers did so - their names are on my Forum signature) but his boss at the Yard warned him in no uncertain terms that, if he did, he would Never work in the Yard again. So, reluctantly, he stayed at the Yard for the duration. And in 1919 he was laid off.

 

Edited 4 May , 2017 by Uncle George

[Guest]

On ‎03‎/‎05‎/‎2017 at 15:09, Uncle George said:

 

I'm sure a bibliophile like you is familiar with this:

 

https://archive.org/stream/snipinginfrancew00pricrich#page/n9/mode/2up

 

 

 

      Sniper activity is still a rather taboo subject.  Glad to see you have discovered the delights of archive.org.  Bibliophile?  Is that someone who physically eats books???

[Guest]

20 hours ago, neverforget said:

No offence meant David. I'm not really au fait with cricketing terms so my use of the word can be "dismissed?" as ignorance. I read that he was regarded as something of a slinger, and that it was a full toss that wounded W.G.G. and the term chuck just came off the top of my head. 

Another interesting slant on the circumstances of his death here:

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/in-depth/anzac-day/wwi-death-of-test-hero-albert-tibby-cotter-revealed/news-story/6d86bacde0f5bc84ce5cae292b2c8833

 

      One of the quieter aspects of cricketing history is that some promising Australian players used to play for local clubs here in the north-east of London-One of the Chapells and Merv Hughes. He came back this way not so long ago-actually looks human now rather than a walking embodiment of GBH-Think he played for a club in Woodford as young 'un

[Fattyowls]

5 hours ago, johnboy said:

His partner was Dempsey and loved mints?

 

3 hours ago, Knotty said:

 

That would probably make him Harry Makepeace (John William Henry), 1881-1952, who was one of only 12 English double international players (football/cricket). 

 

Great teamwork lads, Johnboy plays in John who lashes the ball into the net. I would have got the mint reference had my mind not immediately been scrambled by the thought of Glynis Barber. Everton have two of the 12 both of whom played for Lancashire. Harry Makepeace was however a Yorkshireman, hailing from Middlesborough, he spent most of the war at Farnborough in the RFC parts depot. He had capped (if you will pardon the pun) his career with a championship medal in 1914-15 having been in the Everton team that lifted the FA Cup for the first time in 1906. At nearly 40 he was a rare success on England's disastrous tour down under in 1920-21, scoring a century at Melbourne. He would continue to play for Lancashire nearly into his 50's, and would coach the side thereafter.

 

Pete.

 

The source of the photograph was a team photo courtesy of Everton FC.

 

 

[David Ridgus]

It seems astonishing now that someone could make a century and two fifties against that extraordinarily strong Aussie attack, and never be picked again! 

 

Annoyingly I can't post pictures at the moment, because I'm itching to talk about the four or five Aussies from that team who fought in the Great War two of whom had fairly horrendous experiences. If no one else posts I'll see if I can at least find a WAIWA

 

David

[Uncle George]

On 4 May 2016 at 08:36, neverforget said:

 I will take this opportunity to address any newcomers/potential newcomers to the thread:

The quotes that we post on here as clues, can easily be found by highlighting the text, and simply Google-searching for an instant answer.

Those of us who have been inmates here for a while know this, and many moons back swore an oath in blood not to use the Google-search facility, and thus reduce the whole W.I.T. thing to a pointless exercise.

 

 

A journalist meets, well, who is he ? ? ?, in 1912:

 

"The slow, ponderous personality, uttering itself in aphorisms laboriously quarried from the stuff of solitary thought; the simple, childlike modesty that pretended to no knowledge on many a subject apparently indispensable to his purpose; the equally childlike pride in and reliance on the results of his own experience, meditation and original thought; the very winning and flattering appearance of deference to what one thought or said oneself - these seemed more in accordance with the character of a prophet or apostle than of a man of action."

 

He had little to do with cricket.

Edited 6 May , 2017 by Uncle George

[Guest]

On 5/4/2017 at 12:32, Uncle George said:

No cap. White shorts above left shoulder? Is this from a football team photo?

 

If so, how about a clue? Say, the shirt colour. At this point I would value NO comments on Argyle's away strip last year.

 

    Not from me- I still have my white Argyle shirt with the green chest band and Mayflower in the middle-The malcolm Alison strip-- from my schooldays (Plympton Grammar School). You'll get no comments about Home Park from me- Cor, this shirt must have shrunk....I'm sure I haven't put on any pounds since my schooldays and am still the lithe athlete of some time back.

    OK, I'll make sure I take the increased dose from now on....