seaJane Posted 18 May , 2017 Share Posted 18 May , 2017 31 minutes ago, Uncle George said: It does look a lot like the younger Beatty in a photo from 'alamy' accessed through Google images - but in the current climate I hesitate to post it! A colleague comments that if it is Beatty (although she thinks it isn't) he is being very restrained with any decorations/medals ... Copyright: from our archives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoppage Drill Posted 18 May , 2017 Author Share Posted 18 May , 2017 Doesn't seem to have those hooded Beatty eyes. This chap looks remarkably like the impressionist, Alistair McGowan ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seaJane Posted 18 May , 2017 Share Posted 18 May , 2017 (edited) Mmmmm hardly! There is another photograph, tentatively dated 1923, which either features the same man much older in civilian dress, or relatives; there is a distinct resemblance. I can't post the picture for the moment (will do later) but it was taken in Manchester. What the Manchester connection was, although given our collection I would guess it to be medical*, I really don't know. *which said, I can't make out whether there is distinction cloth between the gold braid. I think not. Edited 18 May , 2017 by seaJane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle George Posted 18 May , 2017 Share Posted 18 May , 2017 Having looked at this: http://www.victorianmilitarysociety.org.uk/reserach/2012-09-09-11-20-22/archive/73-the-role-of-lieutenant-david-beatty-rn-and-the-gunboat-flotilla-in-the-reconquest-of-the-sudan I must agree with your colleague and say, it's not Beatty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seaJane Posted 18 May , 2017 Share Posted 18 May , 2017 It isn't, is it? Oh well ... as you were, all! Do carry on with the original thread and thank you for your patience. sJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neverforget Posted 18 May , 2017 Share Posted 18 May , 2017 (edited) I've zoomed in on his face if that helps anyone. I haven't a clue I'm afraid. Does anyone have any idea what rank he is? Edited 18 May , 2017 by neverforget Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neverforget Posted 18 May , 2017 Share Posted 18 May , 2017 Any ideas on this chap??? Seen here before he lost his arm and died in 1917. Illustrious brother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 18 May , 2017 Share Posted 18 May , 2017 SeaJane- Doesn't ,look like Beatty. Can we be absolutely certain of his rank??? 2 ringer-ordinary Lieutenant? Now, with photograph provenance, the clues might narrow it down: 1) If you have a 1923 photograph, then that might give a better guess at the dates a younger version of the same man may have been taken. 2) Do you know anything of the provenance iof these photographs??? 3) I will try to look up the working years of that particular photographer to narrow it down a bit more (Have to do so anyway-one of "my" local casualties was a London photographer, so the work has to be done on him-Its BOGOFF-I have one,the second one is free) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle George Posted 18 May , 2017 Share Posted 18 May , 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, neverforget said: I've zoomed in on his face if that helps anyone. I haven't a clue I'm afraid. Does anyone have any idea what rank he is? Two rings makes him a Lieutenant, I think. EDIT: yes, I've looked it up here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Navy_officer_rank_insignia Edited 18 May , 2017 by Uncle George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neverforget Posted 18 May , 2017 Share Posted 18 May , 2017 8 minutes ago, Uncle George said: Two rings makes him a Lieutenant, I think. Thanks. #6335 actually had two brothers who were actively involved in the war. The very famous one survived, but the less well known one, like him, did not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seaJane Posted 18 May , 2017 Share Posted 18 May , 2017 1 hour ago, neverforget said: Illustrious HMS? Not back with Beatty, are we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 18 May , 2017 Share Posted 18 May , 2017 38 minutes ago, seaJane said: HMS? Not back with Beatty, are we? I think we are. neverforget is playing games with us- Is this not Charles Beatty, the brother of David??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neverforget Posted 18 May , 2017 Share Posted 18 May , 2017 32 minutes ago, seaJane said: HMS? Not back with Beatty, are we? I wasn't aware that we had left him.? Very sharp SJ. Well played. Charles Harold Longfield Beatty (1870–1917) who served with distinction in the South Africa wars before dying from complications after losing an arm in Flanders. I'm sure you will know all of this, but Charles, along with his famous brother was born out wedlock to David Longfield Beatty. His other brother Richard George (1882–1915) who died on active service in India was born after his parents had wed. I found this out whilst looking into the family thinking that your picture may have been a Beatty after all, if not David. There was another brother William Vandeleur Schruder (1873–1935) who became an army Major and Newmarket horse trainer, but it doesn't look like your picture is him either. https://www.geni.com/people/Admiral-of-the-Fleet-David-Beatty-1st-Earl-Beatty-GCB-OM-GCVO-DSO-PC/6000000009580442815 The picture of Charles was obtained here: http://www.nnwfhs.org.uk/catch-all/first-world-war-centenary-2/men-of-ww1-members-detailed-pages/1355-maj-chl-beatty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neverforget Posted 18 May , 2017 Share Posted 18 May , 2017 44 minutes ago, voltaire60 said: I think we are. neverforget is playing games with us- Is this not Charles Beatty, the brother of David??? Apologies. I didn't see your post. I received a notification by email about seaJane's post, and assumed that she had sussed me out, which of course she had. Well done for identifying Charles in any case. I hope that you have similar success with seaJane's mystery fellow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 19 May , 2017 Share Posted 19 May , 2017 11 hours ago, neverforget said: Apologies. I didn't see your post. I received a notification by email about seaJane's post, and assumed that she had sussed me out, which of course she had. Well done for identifying Charles in any case. I hope that you have similar success with seaJane's mystery fellow. Apologies are not needed- You did,indeed, receive Seajane's posting ahead of mine.A Moderator, whom I cannot name, has placed my postings to the Forum on restriction- Anything that I post has to be approved by him. "Your content will need to be approved by a moderator" appears whenever I write anything and, consequently there is a delay (of up to several hours) before it appears, though it seems to retain it's place in the listing order. In the 45 years since I started to read History for my first degree at university, I have never before had any History work I have done ever questioned for it's integrity or impartiality. C'mon NF -where's the next pic.??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neverforget Posted 19 May , 2017 Share Posted 19 May , 2017 My next offering is this black sheep of a fighting family, whom I discovered whilst investigating unarmed martial arts in the Great War. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle George Posted 19 May , 2017 Share Posted 19 May , 2017 37 minutes ago, voltaire60 said: Apologies are not needed- You did,indeed, receive Seajane's posting ahead of mine.A Moderator, whom I cannot name, has placed my postings to the Forum on restriction- Anything that I post has to be approved by him. "Your content will need to be approved by a moderator" appears whenever I write anything and, consequently there is a delay (of up to several hours) before it appears, though it seems to retain it's place in the listing order. In the 45 years since I started to read History for my first degree at university, I have never before had any History work I have done ever questioned for it's integrity or impartiality. C'mon NF -where's the next pic.??? So that explains why your post #6336 was such a surprise to me. I don't remember that! I thought to myself - it made my post #6337 look rather rude (and redundant) when you had already answered the question. How odd and unnecessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 19 May , 2017 Share Posted 19 May , 2017 12 minutes ago, Uncle George said: So that explains why your post #6336 was such a surprise to me. I don't remember that! I thought to myself - it made my post #6337 look rather rude (and redundant) when you had already answered the question. How odd and unnecessary. Not at all- One of the delights of WIT is that it keeps the (declining number of) brain cells on their toes. So,don't worry- yours are OK! Rather appropriate really- this time of year is Alzheimers Awareness and I will be passing a happy afternoon running a simple quiz (with plenty of tea and cakes) for my sheltered housing scheme-though I have decided that the picture round is best graced with the likes of Simon Cowell and President Trump-the lesser lights of the Great War might be a little too much for my neighbours. Now if I can just get a particular photograph to download properly, I will be able to test your brain cells later in the day........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle George Posted 19 May , 2017 Share Posted 19 May , 2017 (edited) 22 minutes ago, neverforget said: My next offering is this black sheep of a fighting family, whom I discovered whilst investigating unarmed martial arts in the Great War. Is he a Roosevelt? I see that President Teddy was a Ju Jitsu enthusiast. http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2012/11/12/3614692/the-martial-chronicles-in-the-trenches Edited 19 May , 2017 by Uncle George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 19 May , 2017 Share Posted 19 May , 2017 21 hours ago, Stoppage Drill said: His elder brother Theodore Jr. led the first wave of the 4th US Infantry Division onto Utah Beach. He died in Normandy and is buried at the US cemetery overlooking Omaha. Younger brother Quentin killed in action in 1918. Which raises an interesting little point of pure antiquarianism that might have a punt on a different thread- How many families (or,indeed,individuals) are there who had brother winning awards for bravery/courage but in different armies?. Here we have Kermit R-MC- while Theodore Jr was a recipient of the Medal of Honor. The history of Felsted School down here in Essex took a surprising turn when the Roll of Honour work for the Great War threw up a man who had been missed- a former Colonial Service officer, retired to Canada/US (as many did-pension went further around Victoria BC)- killed in action 1918 as an officer of the USMC and awarded the Medal of Honor also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle George Posted 19 May , 2017 Share Posted 19 May , 2017 (edited) 35 minutes ago, voltaire60 said: Which raises an interesting little point of pure antiquarianism that might have a punt on a different thread- How many families (or,indeed,individuals) are there who had brother winning awards for bravery/courage but in different armies?. Here we have Kermit R-MC- while Theodore Jr was a recipient of the Medal of Honor. The history of Felsted School down here in Essex took a surprising turn when the Roll of Honour work for the Great War threw up a man who had been missed- a former Colonial Service officer, retired to Canada/US (as many did-pension went further around Victoria BC)- killed in action 1918 as an officer of the USMC and awarded the Medal of Honor also. An interesting thread here - "British and Canadian Soldiers awarded the Iron Cross": Edited 19 May , 2017 by Uncle George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neverforget Posted 19 May , 2017 Share Posted 19 May , 2017 42 minutes ago, Uncle George said: Is he a Roosevelt? I see that President Teddy was a Ju Jitsu enthusiast. http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2012/11/12/3614692/the-martial-chronicles-in-the-trenches Not a Roosevelt, but you're on the money with ju-jitsu. He's another chap with a famous brother, who was also a WW1 vet, as well as being a boxer and an actor. His famous brother fell out with him, and the picture of him here was taken during his trial, which was instigated by his famous brother for slander and defamation of character. I think I have given too much away now and made it easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle George Posted 19 May , 2017 Share Posted 19 May , 2017 4 minutes ago, neverforget said: Not a Roosevelt, but you're on the money with ju-jitsu. He's another chap with a famous brother, who was also a WW1 vet, as well as being a boxer and an actor. His famous brother fell out with him, and the picture of him here was taken during his trial, which was instigated by his famous brother for slander and defamation of character. I think I have given too much away now and made it easy. Leopold McLaglen? (Brother of Sergeant Quincannon). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neverforget Posted 19 May , 2017 Share Posted 19 May , 2017 7 minutes ago, Uncle George said: Leopold McLaglen? (Brother of Sergeant Quincannon). The very same U.G. Well played. Leo seems to have been something of a Walter Mitty type character who claimed to be ju-jitsu world champion, inter alia. He did nevertheless instruct unarmed combat in the army and reached the rank of Captain in the Middlesex Regiment. https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/frontiersmenhistorian.wordpress.com/2015/08/11/the-fighting-macks-an-extraordinary-family-of-brothers/amp/#ampshare=https://frontiersmenhistorian.wordpress.com/2015/08/11/the-fighting-macks-an-extraordinary-family-of-brothers/ The picture was part of the Los Angeles Daily News collection. http://lit250v.library.ucla.edu/islandora/object/edu.ucla.library.specialCollections.losAngelesDailyNews%3A2925 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoppage Drill Posted 19 May , 2017 Author Share Posted 19 May , 2017 (edited) *Deleted* Edited 19 May , 2017 by Stoppage Drill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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