Who is This ? ? ?

[Phil Wood]

6 hours ago, Fattyowls said:

 

Phil, is your man a minor royal? House of Sachen-Coburg und Gotha by any chance? There is something about his face that reminds me of Prince Maurice of Battenburg. However it may be that the words barking, tree, wrong and up could well be rearranged to make a relevant sentence.

 

Pete.

If he's a royal it is so minor that he probably hadn't realised!  

 

Started the war as a Lieutenant, killed in 1916 as a Lieutenant Colonel - noted for his innovatory skills rather than any family connections, his father was a shopkeeper..

[Fattyowls]

28 minutes ago, Phil Wood said:

If he's a royal it is so minor that he probably hadn't realised! 

 

Well it was certainly the case with Danny Dyer; once WDYTYA had established the link his regal demeanour and bearing became obvious.........

 

It's back to the drawing board for me I fear. Just as an aside does he have a Berkshire connection?

 

Pete.

[Phil Wood]

8 minutes ago, Fattyowls said:

 

Well it was certainly the case with Danny Dyer; once WDYTYA had established the link his regal demeanour and bearing became obvious.........

 

It's back to the drawing board for me I fear. Just as an aside does he have a Berkshire connection?

 

Pete.

 

 He does indeed - though not a big one. His in-laws lived here.

 

[Phil Wood]

14 hours ago, Phil Wood said:

 

Well, I checked this thread to find this chap, ignorant of the previous thread - so with apologies if he has been featured before - who is this:

 

Notable for an innovation that would probably have been made within weeks by someone else, but he got there first and created a vital element of the all-arms  system that won the war in 1918 - two years after he was killed. Also a first as Lt in Sept 14.

[neverforget]

4 hours ago, Phil Wood said:

 

Notable for an innovation that would probably have been made within weeks by someone else, but he got there first and created a vital element of the all-arms  system that won the war in 1918 - two years after he was killed. Also a first as Lt in Sept 14.

Donald Swain Lewis?

Carried out a successful experiment with a Royal artillery battery using a radio transmitter to communicate the fall of artillery shells. Lewis is also credited with creating the "grid square" map system which revolutionized British wartime cartography. 

His father was Ernest Lewis, one of the founding directors of the Army & Navy Stores.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Swain_Lewis

[Guest]

3 hours ago, neverforget said:

Donald Swain Lewis?

Carried out a successful experiment with a Royal artillery battery using a radio transmitter to communicate the fall of artillery shells. Lewis is also credited with creating the "grid square" map system which revolutionized British wartime cartography. 

His father was Ernest Lewis, one of the founding directors of the Army & Navy Stores.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Swain_Lewis

 

       An excellent spot NF--   Now will someone please tell CWGC to amend their records-  He is listed as a Lt.Col.  but immediately underneath it has the words "Brevet Major"

[Phil Wood]

Donald Swain Lewis indeed - as a Lt Col he was the second highest ranked officer from the RFC to die in the war.

 

His wife's parents had a home in West Woodhay, Berks - where the local church contains a memorial tablet.

 

http://westberkshirewarmemorials.org.uk/memorial.php?link=WB020

 

 

[Guest]

  Back to CWGC about Donald Swain Lewis.  Odd that being a Brevet Major is described as a trade. And odd also that  he is described as Royal Engineers and RFC.-as also at West Woodhay. Should not one be ahead of the other- "Royal Engineers, attached RFC" or something similar. Not sure how he could be in both at the same time,without one being listed as "attached" or "seconded". As I suspect Royal Engineers have precedence in such matters, then a little surprised that he would not be listed as "Royal Engineers, attached RFC"   I would guess, without getting his service file out at Kew that he was likely Brevet Major,Royal Engineers and Lt-Col RFC.

[Phil Wood]

12 minutes ago, voltaire60 said:

  Back to CWGC about Donald Swain Lewis.  Odd that being a Brevet Major is described as a trade. And odd also that  he is described as Royal Engineers and RFC.-as also at West Woodhay. Should not one be ahead of the other- "Royal Engineers, attached RFC" or something similar. Not sure how he could be in both at the same time,without one being listed as "attached" or "seconded". As I suspect Royal Engineers have precedence in such matters, then a little surprised that he would not be listed as "Royal Engineers, attached RFC"   I would guess, without getting his service file out at Kew that he was likely Brevet Major,Royal Engineers and Lt-Col RFC.

 

Funny you should mention his service file:

 

 

[Guest]

Thanks Phil- In terms of procedure, still an oddity-  Do we know what the death certificate is????   French??  Surely not British.  May help understand other matters re. officers in RFC on (or not on) attachment/secondment.

   I note that Sir Edward Grey rather spoilt his wedding day.

[Phil Wood]

The death certificate is in his file - most definitely British and typical of others I have seen in these files (which are not really service records at all, but 'settling the estate records'.

 

I suspect Sir Edward's actions did more to upset the honeymoon than the wedding!  Not much of a marriage, she remarried in 1917.

Edited 19 June , 2017 by Phil Wood

[Guest]

  Thanks Phil- Ah yes, seen many of those War Office jobs that are done to grant Letters of Administration and satisfy the Probate Registry- and get on with the Committee of Adjustment stuff. Always good to remember that "Officers Long Service Files" are anything but-and that the destruction of the main officer files in Arnside Street was total for officer records. I look forward to seeing what happens long-term to the the pension stuff held by WFA 

[Uncle George]

17 hours ago, voltaire60 said:

 

     Well, we now know who's not on your CXXXXXXXX  card list-  Actually, Hain and this chap shared a coincidence of geography. And as well as casting off clothing he was known  for his trio of leopards.

 

Was he South African, then? Trio of leopards - three lions (correctly, heraldically [is this a word?] called 'leopards', I think) on the shirt?

 

I've no idea, to be honest.

[Ron Clifton]

19 minutes ago, Uncle George said:

Was he South African, then? Trio of leopards - three lions (correctly, heraldically [is this a word?] called 'leopards', I think) on the shirt?

Correctly, they are "lions passant guardant" but are sometimes colloquially referred to as "leopards". Passant means walking, guardant means looking outwards from the shield. Specifically they appear in the royal arms of England, since Plantagenet times (the arms of Normandy only had two lions in the Conqueror's day, and still do). They are of course also used by football and cricket teams representing England.

 

Ron

Edited 19 June , 2017 by Ron Clifton

[Uncle George]

7 minutes ago, Ron Clifton said:

Correctly, they are "lions passant guardant" but are sometimes colloquially referred to as "leopards". Passant means walking, guardant means looking outwards from the shield. Specifically they appear in the royal arms of England, since Plantagenet times (the arms of Normandy only had two lions in the Conqueror's day, and still do). They are of course also used by football and cricket teams representing England.

 

Ron

 

Thanks Ron. I must keep reminding myself, a little learning is a dangerous thing.

[trajan]

48 minutes ago, Uncle George said:

 

Thanks Ron. I must keep reminding myself, a little learning is a dangerous thing.

 

See also: http://www.historyextra.com/qa/leopards-and-lions-royal-arms-england

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Uncle George said:

 

Was he South African, then? Trio of leopards - three lions (correctly, heraldically [is this a word?] called 'leopards', I think) on the shirt?

 

I've no idea, to be honest.

 

     No- You are very close- Yes-he was South African.  The use of the term "leopard" and "lion" in the Middle Ages causes some confusion and pedantry in  terms of heraldry- There is a good old-time book about it-Edward Dorling "The Leopards of England" (London,1913-but remaindered from a stock held somewhere in the 1950s) - a title that makes one wonder if there was something about British fauna we had not been told. As I understand it, the term "lion" was not known in the Middle Ages- lions and any big cats were referred to as "leopards". So nowadays a medieval "leopard" might be described as a lion.

    So let's make it easy- Think Baddiel and Skinner-where would you see someone in the Middle Ages showing three lions??  Or a later representation????  Perhaps 1938........

[Uncle George]

On 19/06/2017 at 12:14, trajan said:

 

See also: http://www.historyextra.com/qa/leopards-and-lions-royal-arms-england

 

Thanks for this - most interesting.

 

I see that, "The English usually referred to them as leopards until the late 1300s when they started calling them lions. French heralds continued to call them leopards, and, during the Hundred Years’ War, the French sometimes referred to the English as ‘the leopards’. "

 

And I read somewhere that the English call the French 'frogs' because a frog was once on a French Standard. But a quick look online suggests that the fleur de lys was thought to be a frog. 

 

But in post #6769 I was wondering if GUEST was letting us know that his South African? chap represented England at football (or cricket).

 

EDIT: this crossed in the post with GUEST's.

[Uncle George]

7 minutes ago, voltaire60 said:

 

     No- You are very close- Yes-he was South African.  The use of the term "leopard" and "lion" in the Middle Ages causes some confusion and pedantry in  terms of heraldry- There is a good old-time book about it-Edward Dorling "The Leopards of England" (London,1913-but remaindered from a stock held somewhere in the 1950s) - a title that makes one wonder if there was something about British fauna we had not been told. As I understand it, the term "lion" was not known in the Middle Ages- lions and any big cats were referred to as "leopards". So nowadays a medieval "leopard" might be described as a lion.

    So let's make it easy- Think Baddiel and Skinner-where would you see someone in the Middle Ages showing three lions??  Or a later representation????  Perhaps 1938........

 

1938 - was that the England v. Germany game when the England players made the Hitler salute? Apart from one chap, who refused, if I remember rightly.

[Guest]

28 minutes ago, Uncle George said:

 

1938 - was that the England v. Germany game when the England players made the Hitler salute? Apart from one chap, who refused, if I remember rightly.

 

     Wandering a bit......  Let's make it easy-  Who did Errol Flynn kneel before in 1938????

[Uncle George]

32 minutes ago, voltaire60 said:

 

     Wandering a bit......  Let's make it easy-  Who did Errol Flynn kneel before in 1938????

 

You've given it away. Ian Hunter.

[neverforget]

9 minutes ago, Uncle George said:

 

You've given it away. Ian Hunter.

You did an excellent job of breaking that one down U.G. I hadn't the foggiest. Very well played.

[Uncle George]

16 minutes ago, neverforget said:

You did an excellent job of breaking that one down U.G. I hadn't the foggiest. Very well played.

 

"Shedding clothes" was something of a red herring - I was going to suggest Vivian Van Damm!

 

I'm still struggling with Pete's.

[neverforget]

On 2017-6-18 at 13:39, Fattyowls said:

 

Not Melville Cooper, the clue is not so much the foregoing threads as in my description of where I was yesterday. My man fell five and a half miles due south of where Jack Harrison was killed sixteen days later.

 

Pete.

Pete. I got there in the end. 

After first looking at people called Goodison or Stanley, I found this site of Liverpool V.C. winners, where the only Ww1 candidate without a picture was one Albert White. Next step was to try to track down a picture of him elsewhere and bingo. 

http://liverpoolremembrance.weebly.com/local-vc-winners.html

[neverforget]

I don't think we've covered this interesting character yet. Known for amongst other things his passion for the gee gees.

 

Edited 19 June , 2017 by neverforget