Who is This ? ? ?

[neverforget]

1 hour ago, Uncle George said:

 

You know that one of these men was, or served with (#6897) the best staff officer (#6897) Trenchard (#6908) ever had. So, they both served on Trenchard's staff.

 

One of these men was a barrister (#6926) and a well known (#6897) Liberal National (#6926) politician (#6926). The Liberal Nationals were also known as Simonite Liberals (#6928). He, (or the other officer) had an association with the Metropolitan Police (#6918).

 

 

That gives us a fair crack of the whip imho.

[Uncle George]

15 minutes ago, neverforget said:

That gives us a fair crack of the whip imho.

 

The other chap was a man of letters, a dramatist, poet, novelist, and essayist, and also a travel writer and war correspondent. He it was who was rated so highly by Trenchard.

[Ron Clifton]

OK, so one of them was Sir John Simon. 

 

12 minutes ago, Uncle George said:

 

The other chap was a man of letters, a dramatist, poet, novelist, and essayist, and also a travel writer and war correspondent. He it was who was rated so highly by Trenchard.

 

Sir Arthur Conan Doyle.

 

Ron

[Uncle George]

3 hours ago, Ron Clifton said:

OK, so one of them was Sir John Simon. 

 

 

Sir Arthur Conan Doyle.

 

Ron

 

 

Yes, Sir John Simon. He had resigned in 1916 as Home Secretary (in which position he served as the Police Authority for the Metropolitan Police) in liberal protest at the introduction of conscription. He would later be Foreign Secretary, Home Secretary (again), Chancellor of the Exchequer, and Lord Chancellor. The attached photograph (from Getty) shows him as Foreign Secretary with his junior Minister (Eden), and Hitler. Yet today he is almost forgotten (#6906); as has been demonstrated.

 

Arthur Conan Doyle? No. As has been mentioned (#6906), my chap is, like Simon, now virtually forgotten.

 

Edited 4 August , 2017 by Uncle George

[seaJane]

Maurice Baring, though I confess that I only achieved that by reading through the (rather amusing) entry for Trenchard in the Oxford DNB.

[Uncle George]

1 minute ago, seaJane said:

Maurice Baring, though I confess that I only achieved that by reading through the (rather amusing) entry for Trenchard in the Oxford DNB.

 

Yes! Maurice Baring. In the attached article he is desrcibed as the "Forgotten Giant of English Letters":

 

https://johnjburnslibrary.wordpress.com/2016/06/06/maurice-baring-the-forgotten-giant-of-english-letters/

 

I've not read about Trenchard in the DNB - are you able to share the amusing part?

[Phil Wood]

On 7/22/2017 at 10:59, Uncle George said:

These two men served together: they were very well known in their respective civilian roles.

 

A general officer described one of them as the "best staff officer" he ever had.

 

Who are they ? ? ?

 

Bringing the pictures forward - and guessing Archibald Sinclair for the top one. 

[Uncle George]

26 minutes ago, Phil Wood said:

 

Bringing the pictures forward - and guessing Archibald Sinclair for the top one. 

 

Sorry Phil, Ron Clifton has already identified Sir John Simon.

[Phil Wood]

2 minutes ago, Uncle George said:

 

Sorry Phil, Ron Clifton has already identified Sir John Simon.

 

Can't get mich more Simonite!  

[Uncle George]

Here's the full, rather splendid photograph - "Major John Simon RAF inspecting a Handley Page 0/400 heavy bomber of No. 207 Squadron at Ligescourt, 29 August 1918."  (Imperial War Museum, ref. Q9970):

 

[Guest]

Could someone remind me what Haig's classical nickname was for Maurice Baring??  As I live in the east of London, I'm too ferocious, violent and uneducated to know.

[Uncle George]

And here the second photograph - "Queen Mary of Teck's visit to the Royal Flying Corps Headquarters at Saint-Omer, 5 July 1917. Mabell Ogilvy, the Countess of Airlie; Brigadier-General Anthony Ashley-Cooper, the Earl of Shaftesbury (extreme left); and other members of the suite watching a flight. The aeroplane on the left is a Bristol Fighter and that on the right an R. E. 8. Other identified members of the suite are: Lieutenant-General Arthur Sloggett (second left); Major Maurice Baring (wearing a monocle); General Hugh Trenchard (second from the right)." (IWM ref. Q11852):

 

 

 

Edited 5 August , 2017 by Uncle George

[Uncle George]

6 minutes ago, voltaire60 said:

Could someone remind me what Haig's classical nickname was for Maurice Baring??  As I live in the east of London, I'm too ferocious, violent and uneducated to know.

 

Nicodemus.

[Guest]

Thanks UG- I have forgotten the reason why as well!!

[Uncle George]

3 hours ago, voltaire60 said:

Thanks UG- I have forgotten the reason why as well!!

 

Baring:

 

"Sir John Simon

Is not like Timon - 

Timon hated mankind:

Simon does not mind."

Edited 4 August , 2017 by Uncle George

[Fattyowls]

18 minutes ago, voltaire60 said:

As I live in the east of London, I'm too ferocious, violent and uneducated to know.

 

Would that be nature or nurture MV? I for one don't believe any of it.

 

UG, the photos are excellent, it was definitely worth your persevering with the quest. One question occurs from the first one; is the sign in big letters under the front fuselage of the 0/400 a bit superfluous or is this health and safety gone mad 1918 style?

 

Pete.

[Uncle George]

58 minutes ago, Fattyowls said:

 

Would that be nature or nurture MV? I for one don't believe any of it.

 

UG, the photos are excellent, it was definitely worth your persevering with the quest. One question occurs from the first one; is the sign in big letters under the front fuselage of the 0/400 a bit superfluous or is this health and safety gone mad 1918 style?

 

Pete.

 

As H.G. Wells would remind us, You can't be too careful!

 

The mystery for me is, where on earth is the enigmatic Mabell Ogilvie? Or perhaps, where is the Queen?

Edited 4 August , 2017 by Uncle George

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Fattyowls said:

 

Would that be nature or nurture MV? I for one don't believe any of it.

 

UG, the photos are excellent, it was definitely worth your persevering with the quest. One question occurs from the first one; is the sign in big letters under the front fuselage of the 0/400 a bit superfluous or is this health and safety gone mad 1918 style?

 

Pete.

 

      I can only say "Oink"    Nature or nurture? None of that John Locke rubbish where I grew up- in Devonshire. The old Devonshire saying on nature v nurture  is:

          "Is it the pig that makes the sty or the sty that makes the pig?"

[seaJane]

6 hours ago, voltaire60 said:

Thanks UG- I have forgotten the reason why as well!!

All I know about Nicodemus is that he came to Jesus by night (John 3:1-8)

[seaJane]

10 hours ago, Uncle George said:

 Trenchard in the DNB

Not laugh out loud hilarious (unlike the entries for Michael Bentine and Fanny Cradock), but written with wit and verve, I think; author is Vincent Orange.

 

"An inarticulate, prickly young man, socially inept and without money, he was known as ‘the Camel’ (did not drink, could not speak), and was far from popular until he revealed a rare combination of talents. He mastered any horse assigned to him; played polo skilfully (fending off Winston Churchill vigorously); traded horses profitably; picked winners regularly; shot accurately; and—not least—organized teams and tournaments efficiently.

...

By 1912 Trenchard was rising forty, unmarried, and discontented. He was respected by good officers and men, but too ‘unclubbable’ (and too poor) for high rank. After almost twenty years of strenuous military service, he was looking about for new opportunities, in or out of uniform, and his colleagues—wary of his sharp tongue—were more than willing to help him. One of his few friends advised him to learn to fly and he agreed to give it a go. He was promptly granted three months' leave, and boldly spent the considerable sum of £75 on flying lessons at the Sopwith school, Brooklands.

.....

When war broke out in August 1914 Trenchard took command of Farnborough, Hampshire, where he allegedly found ‘one typewriter, a confidential box with a pair of boots in it, and a lot of unpaid bills’.

...

Haig declared in 1922 that the First World War had produced only two new things of importance: ‘barbed wire and Trenchard’ (Boyle, 506).

...

 From Henderson he inherited Maurice Baring—author, linguist, diplomat—as an essential assistant, who translated his incoherent mutterings into fluent prose. ‘I can't write what I mean, I can't say what I mean, but I expect you to know what I mean’ .

 

Edited 4 August , 2017 by seaJane

[Ghazala]

7 hours ago, seaJane said:

 

"An inarticulate, prickly man, 

 

 

 

Lol.   This could be describing some users on this forum.

[Uncle George]

8 hours ago, seaJane said:

Not laugh out loud hilarious (unlike the entries for Michael Bentine and Fanny Cradock), but written with wit and verve, I think; author is Vincent Orange.

 

"An inarticulate, prickly young man, socially inept and without money, he was known as ‘the Camel’ (did not drink, could not speak), and was far from popular until he revealed a rare combination of talents. He mastered any horse assigned to him; played polo skilfully (fending off Winston Churchill vigorously); traded horses profitably; picked winners regularly; shot accurately; and—not least—organized teams and tournaments efficiently.

...

By 1912 Trenchard was rising forty, unmarried, and discontented. He was respected by good officers and men, but too ‘unclubbable’ (and too poor) for high rank. After almost twenty years of strenuous military service, he was looking about for new opportunities, in or out of uniform, and his colleagues—wary of his sharp tongue—were more than willing to help him. One of his few friends advised him to learn to fly and he agreed to give it a go. He was promptly granted three months' leave, and boldly spent the considerable sum of £75 on flying lessons at the Sopwith school, Brooklands.

.....

When war broke out in August 1914 Trenchard took command of Farnborough, Hampshire, where he allegedly found ‘one typewriter, a confidential box with a pair of boots in it, and a lot of unpaid bills’.

...

Haig declared in 1922 that the First World War had produced only two new things of importance: ‘barbed wire and Trenchard’ (Boyle, 506).

...

 From Henderson he inherited Maurice Baring—author, linguist, diplomat—as an essential assistant, who translated his incoherent mutterings into fluent prose. ‘I can't write what I mean, I can't say what I mean, but I expect you to know what I mean’ .

 

 

Thanks for posting this sJ. There are echoes of this description in Simon's memoir, 'Retrospect' (1952):

 

"[Trenchard] could be hard and unyielding - and 'Boom' was sometimes not too precise in language - but he everywhere inspired a sense of confidence and attachment, which I can only compare with the feeling at a public school for a really great headmaster, who is equally authoritative and beloved."

 

" ... the letter which he wrote to the French Flying Corps was made an Order of the Day ... Maurice Baring, no doubt, had rendered the message into beautiful French."

[Fattyowls]

Thanks sJ, that is really interesting. As you say not a cause of belly laughs but droll none the less.

 

Pete.

[Uncle George]

Here's another Liberal National. He was the indirect cause of a row between WSC and Spears on a later occasion. Who is he ? ? ?

 

(For an extra point, what did he have in common with Simon and WSC?)

 

Edited 5 August , 2017 by Uncle George

[Stoppage Drill]

21 hours ago, Uncle George said:

And here the second photograph - "Queen Mary of Teck's visit to the Royal Flying Corps Headquarters at Saint-Omer, 5 July 1917 . . . . . .." (IWM ref. Q11851):

 

 

 

 

 

Is that the IWM caption ?

 

Queen Mary was never "Queen Mary of Teck". 

 

Princess Mary of Teck before her marriage, then Duchess of York, Princess of Wales and finally Queen - of England.