Khaki Posted 5 February , 2015 Share Posted 5 February , 2015 . I am aware that David and I have been posting English cricketers which may leave you guys out in the cold a bit, Pete. I am just happy that, 'I knocked that one for a six' in this innings, it has been a great 'test' in other areas I will have to 'declare' khaki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fattyowls Posted 5 February , 2015 Share Posted 5 February , 2015 I am just happy that, 'I knocked that one for a six' in this innings, it has been a great 'test' in other areas I will have to 'declare' khaki You are a card Khaki. Would you describe yourself as a student of the game or is it that you have absorbed the vocabulary? It is remarkable how much sporting metaphor was used in the Great War I have to admit. And since we are on the subject of cricket, who is this gentleman? Pete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle George Posted 5 February , 2015 Share Posted 5 February , 2015 Couldn`t find one in the singular, as is my poet, but found this one in the plural.fg.jpg An ace, and a captain. Is he American ace Arthur Raymond Brooks? EDIT: yes he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khaki Posted 5 February , 2015 Share Posted 5 February , 2015 I like to think of myself as well rounded reader of all things, perhaps with cricket I am more of an 'Oval' khaki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle George Posted 5 February , 2015 Share Posted 5 February , 2015 An ace, not a poet's namesake or in any other sub-theme, but his grandson gave a lengthy interview on the radio here yesterday evening, mainly about his grandfather and the family history from WW1 up to today, which I found fascinating and moving. Clue 1: The photo was taken in Britain during WW2 although Britain was neither his country of birth nor the country he fought for Clue 2: He won just about every available medal his country had to offer, except the very highest, for which he could never under any circumstances have become eligible. Cheers Colin I'm guessing he's a German, but at large in Britain during WW2 so therefore Jewish. So, Fritz Beckhardt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fattyowls Posted 5 February , 2015 Share Posted 5 February , 2015 UG, I think you have your man. I've just come across this photo of him in his flying days with Jasta 26, Beckhardt is on the far right as we look. I think the likeness is the clincher. Pete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Michelle Young Posted 5 February , 2015 Admin Share Posted 5 February , 2015 You are a card Khaki. Would you describe yourself as a student of the game or is it that you have absorbed the vocabulary? It is remarkable how much sporting metaphor was used in the Great War I have to admit. And since we are on the subject of cricket, who is this gentleman? Pete. Frank Chester I think Michelle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle George Posted 5 February , 2015 Share Posted 5 February , 2015 UG, I think you have your man. I've just come across this photo of him in his flying days with Jasta 26, Beckhardt is on the far right as we look. I think the likeness is the clincher. Pete. Do we get from this that Jewish men were not eligible for the Pour le Merite? Colin will let us know in due course, no doubt. EDIT: no, I see that Wilhelm Frankl had the Pour le Merite. The mystery deepens... EDIT2: I see on Wiki that Frankl converted to Christianity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neverforget Posted 5 February , 2015 Share Posted 5 February , 2015 Is he American ace Arthur Raymond Brooks? EDIT: yes he is. He certainly is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fattyowls Posted 5 February , 2015 Share Posted 5 February , 2015 Frank Chester I think Michelle You think correctly Michelle. Frank Chester, described as the greatest cricket umpire by Sir Donald Bradman. His hugely promising cricket career for Worcestershire was ended when he lost his right arm from the elbow down serving with the RFA in Salonika in 1917. Pete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Ridgus Posted 5 February , 2015 Share Posted 5 February , 2015 Another enjoyable catch up of the last few pages. I have a series of non-poets with poets' names if I could only get a moment to post them. Do we get from this that Jewish men were not eligible for the Pour le Merite? Colin will let us know in due course, no doubt. EDIT: no, I see that Wilhelm Frankl had the Pour le Merite. The mystery deepens... EDIT2: I see on Wiki that Frankl converted to Christianity. We had a whole sub-theme on Jewish fliers many moons ago. Stoppage Drill posted Frankl and others and explained how they were excluded from the medal winners records. Nice to see them again though David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fattyowls Posted 5 February , 2015 Share Posted 5 February , 2015 Another enjoyable catch up of the last few pages. I have a series of non-poets with poets' names if I could only get a moment to post them. Just out of interest would you have recognised Frank Chester? I'll await your poetic soundalikes with dread as I haven't managed to get even close to one; and I'm very fond of poetry which makes it even worse. Pete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fattyowls Posted 5 February , 2015 Share Posted 5 February , 2015 This gentleman didn't quite make it to France this time round but.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ph0ebus Posted 5 February , 2015 Share Posted 5 February , 2015 All I know about cricket is they keep me up at night in the summertime. May I put forth another fellow? I can't guess em lately, but I am good at finding new people to contribute! -Daniel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fattyowls Posted 6 February , 2015 Share Posted 6 February , 2015 Daniel, would that be the man who legend has it was wounded in the Argonne and cabled his family to reassure them that the Argonne was part of France rather than part of him? Mark Clark by any chance? Pete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ph0ebus Posted 6 February , 2015 Share Posted 6 February , 2015 Daniel, would that be the man who legend has it was wounded in the Argonne and cabled his family to reassure them that the Argonne was part of France rather than part of him? Mark Clark by any chance? Pete. Great guess, and a great line, but this is a different fellow. Hint 1: like that popular song by Sting, he was an Englishman in New York... -Daniel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Ridgus Posted 6 February , 2015 Share Posted 6 February , 2015 Just out of interest would you have recognised Frank Chester? I'll await your poetic soundalikes with dread as I haven't managed to get even close to one; and I'm very fond of poetry which makes it even worse. Pete. Well I did the first time round. He was WIT number 306 posted by Steven Broomfield and solved by me. Have a go at this non-poet poet: On the subject of sub-themes it was what actually got WIT started. After Centurion posted the original 'Who is this chap in a pince nez?' which none of us could get (and still can't) Tom Morgan proceeded to put up six pictures of other Great War folk in pince nez including subsequent WIT legend King Albert of the Belgians, Matthials Erzberger and Admiral Wemyss. 10,000 posts and 100,000 views later here we are David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle George Posted 6 February , 2015 Share Posted 6 February , 2015 This gentleman didn't quite make it to France this time round but.......... Is this Omar Bradley? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wigwhammer Posted 6 February , 2015 Share Posted 6 February , 2015 I'm guessing he's a German, but at large in Britain during WW2 so therefore Jewish. So, Fritz Beckhardt? Do we get from this that Jewish men were not eligible for the Pour le Merite? Colin will let us know in due course, no doubt. EDIT: no, I see that Wilhelm Frankl had the Pour le Merite. The mystery deepens... EDIT2: I see on Wiki that Frankl converted to Christianity. Yes, UG, spot on. He was not eligible for the Pour le Merite because that was only available to officers and (unconverted) Jews were not permitted to become officers. Even then, the PLM was rather elitist in that commoners were not often honoured with it - c/f Ernst Junger, whose PLM was highly controversial and was only awarded because the Kaiser insisted. (It was, in any case, awarded more for "exceptional military achievement" rather than for acts of singular personal bravery). When the Nazis came to power he was denounced for having an affair with an "aryan" household employee, which he admitted and was, under the Nürnberg race laws, condemned to Buchenwald concentration camp. Here as a "race defiler" (Rassenschänder) he was considered the lowest of the low and put in a working party with the most unrelenting work and the poorest rations and conditions where he and his fellow unfortunates were literally to be worked to death. His friend and WW1 comrade, a Jewish lawyer named Guthmann who also happened to be an old friend of Hermann Göring, interceded with HG on Beckhardt's behalf and he was first taken out of the working party and - just a couple of weeks later - set free on the condition he either allow himself to be "aryanised" or emigrate. He chose the latter. (Ironically, Guthmann was later sent to Auschwitz where he died). Curiously, Beckhardt's personal insignia in WW1 was a swastika - something which has more recently caused some bewilderment, but was then (and until the early 1920s) no more than a lucky charm. Here a picture of his fighter on the cover of a book about Jewish WW1 flyers. Cheers Colin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle George Posted 6 February , 2015 Share Posted 6 February , 2015 Yes, UG, spot on. He was not eligible for the Pour le Merite because that was only available to officers and (unconverted) Jews were not permitted to become officers. Thanks Colin. I read a little while ago (and got the book out to re-check ['Hitler's First War', Thomas Weber 2010] ) that Hitler was awarded the Iron Cross First Class on the recommendation of his regimental adjutant, Hugo Gutmann. Gutmann was "the regiment's highest serving Jew". According to Weber Gutmann's role was subsequently edited out of AH's autobiography. So from what you say Gutmann will have converted. Interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle George Posted 6 February , 2015 Share Posted 6 February , 2015 On the subject of sub-themes it was what actually got WIT started. After Centurion posted the original 'Who is this chap in a pince nez?' which none of us could get (and still can't) David This is the chap? Never been identified? Blimey. Isn't there some photo-recognition jiggerypokery or other? A few clues - the uniform...Is that a scar? Is that a pince-nez, or a monocle? This is not beyond us surely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wigwhammer Posted 6 February , 2015 Share Posted 6 February , 2015 Thanks Colin. I read a little while ago (and got the book out to re-check ['Hitler's First War', Thomas Weber 2010] ) that Hitler was awarded the Iron Cross First Class on the recommendation of his regimental adjutant, Hugo Gutmann. Gutmann was "the regiment's highest serving Jew". According to Weber Gutmann's role was subsequently edited out of AH's autobiography. So from what you say Gutmann will have converted. Interesting. I am not sure whether he had been baptised, but to be precise, on paper Jews had equal legal rights, nevertheless in practice they were very much 2nd class citizens and while there was no official ban on them becoming officeers, that door was very much closed to them, despite a very small number of "token" Jewish junior officers in the army (usually promoted in the field). In the air force, however, I think I am right in saying there were none. Many Jews believed - perhaps naively in hindsight - that patriotic service in the war would go a long way to improve their social status, but we all know how that ended... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle George Posted 6 February , 2015 Share Posted 6 February , 2015 I am not sure whether he had been baptised, but to be precise, on paper Jews had equal legal rights, nevertheless in practice they were very much 2nd class citizens and while there was no official ban on them becoming officeers, that door was very much closed to them, despite a very small number of "token" Jewish junior officers in the army (usually promoted in the field). In the air force, however, I think I am right in saying there were none. Many Jews believed - perhaps naively in hindsight - that patriotic service in the war would go a long way to improve their social status, but we all know how that ended... Thanks again Colin. I was wondering if things were different in the Bavarian Army, and in looking found this on Gutmann: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugo_Gutmann Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fattyowls Posted 6 February , 2015 Share Posted 6 February , 2015 Is this Omar Bradley? It is Omar Bradley, at West Point. Aiwac posted an interesting article about Charles Mangin whch discussed his relationship with Petain briefly and in the discussion that followed Patton was compared to Mangin. It occured to me that Bradley is to Patton what Petain was to Mangin, so I read up a bit. I was surprised to find that he hadn't made it to France along with Eisenhower. Pete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fattyowls Posted 6 February , 2015 Share Posted 6 February , 2015 Well I did the first time round. He was WIT number 306 posted by Steven Broomfield and solved by me. I knew you would have got him if your dedication to the little angels in your charge hadn't distracted you. I forgot to check the spreadsheet which is unusual, but I think a bit of re-cycling does no harm every now and then. On the subject of the mystery man that started our little quest is it worth us temporarily suspending our self denying ordinance about photo recognition software to try and track him down as Uncle has suggested? What does the team think? Pete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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