Guest sarah louise Posted 31 October , 2004 Share Posted 31 October , 2004 hello,i am currently tracing the war experiences of my grandad francis(frank) wormington.i know he served with the manchesters and have been told that they suffered heavy losses at the somme in 1916.i wish to find out more can anybody help.many thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyem1 Posted 31 October , 2004 Share Posted 31 October , 2004 Hi Sarah, If you can give more details on your Grandad, Battalion/Service No, whatever you have, there are lots of people on this forum that can help you. gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hartley Posted 31 October , 2004 Share Posted 31 October , 2004 Hi, Sarah. Welcome to the Forum I've had a look at the records and there's no Wormington amongst the original recruits to the "Pals" Battalion. Assuming that he did serve with one of those battalions, then he probably joined as one of the replacements for the casualties on 1 July 1916. He may, of course, have served with one of the two regualr army battaions or one of the several Territorial Batatlions (although they were not on the Somme in 1916) or one of the other "Service" battalions not regarded as being a "Pals" Battalion. To be able to help any more, you will need to find out which Battalion he served with. You may well be able to get this from his Medal Index Card, available on-line at the National Archives website (it'll cost you £3.50). John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 1 November , 2004 Share Posted 1 November , 2004 Sarah. If he served with the Mancs on the Somme in 1916, then he will have been with one of the following battalions: 2nd, 11th, 12th, 16th, 17th, 18th, 19th, 20th, 21st, 22nd, 23rd, or the 24th Battalions. As far as I'm aware, there were no Manc.Regt. Territorials on the Somme in 1916. As John said, if you download his MIC, you might find his Bn there. Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 1 November , 2004 Share Posted 1 November , 2004 Sarah. I've just had a little scout round and can tell you that his service number was 245224. This number is for Pte. Francis R.Wormington of the Manchester Regiment. His MIC might tell you more. If not that, then his medal roll definately will. Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hartley Posted 1 November , 2004 Share Posted 1 November , 2004 Dave Thanks for the tactful way in which you have pointed out my typing mistake - earlier post now amended to "not on the Somme". I assume your "little bit of scouting round" was at the free bit of his Medal Index Card?? If I've understood things correctly, this is a post- January 1917 number for the 5th Manchesters. There doesnt seem to be an earlier number, which means he can't have been on the Somme in 1916 as (A) he hadnt joined up then and ( the 5th werent there at that time (sunning themselves in Egypt, IIRC). John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 1 November , 2004 Share Posted 1 November , 2004 I assume your "little bit of scouting round" was at the free bit of his Medal Index Card?? If I've understood things correctly, this is a post- January 1917 number for the 5th Manchesters. There doesnt seem to be an earlier number, which means he can't have been on the Somme in 1916 Hi John. The "scouting" certainly was the free bit! (I'm not paying £3.50 for the MIC - that's Sarah's job!!! ) I agree that the number is indicative of a later recruit, but to be honest, I've given up trying to associate numbers with set battalions for the 2 regiments I've attempted it at (Mancs and ELR). Every time I thought I was getting somewhere, along came a batch of numbers that blew my theory out of the water! (It's easier for pre-1916 join-ups, though). Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sarah louise Posted 1 November , 2004 Share Posted 1 November , 2004 many thanks for all the help. the information i have gathered that might help further is as follows. his full name was francis(frank)richard wormington,he originated from stoke prior in worcestershire and married a lady called dorothy stanford or stamford. he was wounded at some point in the war sustaining a leg injury,and was treated by the germans in a hamberg hospital.it may be possible that he was injured whilst serving with/attached to the welsh fusilliers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sarah louise Posted 1 November , 2004 Share Posted 1 November , 2004 sorry i forgot to mention that i have now located his medal card but the only info on is his regt number,rank(private) and his victory medal.cheers sarah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hartley Posted 1 November , 2004 Share Posted 1 November , 2004 Sarah Assuming that there is only the one service number on his card, then it's pretty good confirmation that he was a late joiner (after beginning of 1917). That ties in with him not being local to the Manchester area. Does the medal card indicate he served with the Welch Fusiliers? If not, what makes you think he might have been with them? If you havnt already done so, can I suggest that you have a look at the mother site (click the link to the Long Long Trail top of this page) and then find the section "Grandads War". It'll give you some good ideas about what to do next. good luck John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Lees Posted 1 November , 2004 Share Posted 1 November , 2004 I'm not 100% sure if I'm right with this one, but I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong: The fact that only a 6-digit number is shown on the Medal Index Card for a Territorial soldier doesn't mean that he joined after the time these numbers were introduced (c. early 1917), rather that the first number he served in a theatre of war with, and thereby became eligible for the medals, was the 6-digit one. Wasn't it the case that a man who joined in 1915 but who, for various possible reasons, only went out to a theatre of war after early 1917, would only have his later number recorded along with his eligibility for the BW & Vic medals? Amongst the MICs of the battalion that I am researching, many of the later 6-digit numbers are shown with the 4-digit one, but earlier 6-digit number in the battalion's allocated 'block' don't have the 4-digit one recorded. I am currently working on the theory (as yet unproven) that perhaps those whose 4-digit number is shown on the MIC were 1st line territorials who would have gone to France anytime from March 1915 (when the battalion was first deployed) and those without a 4-digit number on the MIC were either 2nd line territorials who didn't go out to France before May 1917, or later post-early 1917 reinforcements to the 1st line battalion. Any comments would be appreciated. Regards, Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harribobs Posted 2 November , 2004 Share Posted 2 November , 2004 there's no mention of a Wormington in the manchester city battalions 2nd cd ( the rolls of honour of some manchester firms and institutions) and just to be of no help at all, none of my blokes have a service number in that range chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hartley Posted 2 November , 2004 Share Posted 2 November , 2004 Sarah - Sorry if we are slightly hi-jacking your thread, but it's raised some interesting issues. Ken - your comment prompted me to have a look at Soldiers Died. There are 21 Manchesters in the series 2452**. It's surprised me to find that well over half died with the 2nd Bn. Another 5 were with the 18th Bn. Only 3 were with one of the Territorial Battalions. Makes it very hard to track the stories. Any thoughts? John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 2 November , 2004 Share Posted 2 November , 2004 Ken - your comment prompted me to have a look at Soldiers Died. There are 21 Manchesters in the series 2452**. It's surprised me to find that well over half died with the 2nd Bn. Another 5 were with the 18th Bn. Only 3 were with one of the Territorial Battalions. John. I did warn you, didn't I? Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Lees Posted 2 November , 2004 Share Posted 2 November , 2004 Ken - your comment prompted me to have a look at Soldiers Died. There are 21 Manchesters in the series 2452**. It's surprised me to find that well over half died with the 2nd Bn. Another 5 were with the 18th Bn. Only 3 were with one of the Territorial Battalions. Makes it very hard to track the stories. Any thoughts? John John, I have no knowledge of the Manchesters but how many territorial battalions did they have? The 2452** series was obviously in amongst the second of the TF battalions. Was that one of the battalions disbanded or amalgamated in JAnuary 1918 when the Infantry Brigade was reduced from 4 battalions to 3? That would explain the large number of transfers. It would also be of benefit to look at the dates of the deaths in that number series. Regards, Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katesdad Posted 16 November , 2004 Share Posted 16 November , 2004 Looking to fill in any detail I can about my Grandfather, John Roberts. He was with the 1/8th (Ardwick) Bttn, Service Number 301023, he served in Egypt, Gallipoli, Palestine and died a ripe old age in his own bed in Gorton. He demobbed at Heaton Park in March 1919 according to his 'Protection Certificate and Certificate of Identity. Interesting to read on a later thread that tghe 1/8th were at Krithia in Gallipoli. I lived and worked near there for a year in 1981, but wasn't aware of my Grandfather's connection to the place until just recently. Anyway anything would be a help, even general information. Larry Bedford Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hartley Posted 16 November , 2004 Share Posted 16 November , 2004 Larry Short of you visiting the National Archives at Kew to read the War Diary, the best account you'll find is the 42nd Division history (available from Naval & Military Press). If he was at Krithia, then he was probably an "original" who went overseas in September 1914 (to Egypt) and then to Gallpoli in spring 1915. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harribobs Posted 16 November , 2004 Share Posted 16 November , 2004 Larry have you checked out the information on the mother site? the long long trail, manchesters that will give you a bit more information on what the battalion was doing and have you downloaded his medal index card? national archives cheers chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katesdad Posted 21 November , 2004 Share Posted 21 November , 2004 I've received a detailed history of the 1/8th Manchesters from the Manchesters Museum historian. it outlines training, movements, individual periods in the line (who they relived and were relieved by), losses, town and place names ... nearly exhaustive. My Grandfather was a Manchester original, joining up at the start of the war and serving until the Armistice. If any of the detail is of use to anyone, drop me a line and I'll look it up for you. Larry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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