Pioneer Battalions

[Kate Wills]

Some questions about pioneer battalions, please Pals:

Did pioneer battalions exist in the pre-1914 Regular and Territorial Armies?

Who determined which of the newly-raised battalions would become Divisional pioneers, and how was this arranged?

Were men recruited specifically for or assigned to pioneer battalions? For example, I am researching an officer of the 5th DCLI, who wore glasses. Would his short-sightedness have determined his posting to this battalion?

[John_Hartley]

Kate

The 1/5th Cheshires were "selected" to become Div. Pioneers at the end of 1915.

Somewhere in "Subalterns of the Foot" which still sits on the shelf unread, will be quotes from the officers indicating how unpopular this was. The finger of blame seems to be pointed at the then Colonel - a man seemingly detested by his subordinates. My understanding is that the implication is that he wanted to gain favour with his superiors and so "volunteered" the Bn.

True or not, I do not know

John

[Jonathan Saunders]

Kate,

I dont think Pioneer Bttns existed prior to 1915 - I guess stagnant warfare from late 1914 on the WF was the driving force for their formation. I presume you are aware P&S published a book on Pioneer Bttns a few years ago.

[dycer]

Kate,

I have the "History" of the 8th Royal Scots(Pioneers to the 51st Highland Division) wriiten by the local Newsaper after the War.

It is not as in depth as the Book Signals refers to but it outlines their transition from a "Front-Line" Territorial Battalion in 1914 to a Pioneer one in 1915.Also their duties from 1915 to 1918.

If you e-mail/pm me an address I'll gladly send you a copy.

The Book I recall reading was entitled along the lines of "Pioneeers-The Educated Soldiers.I cannot remember the name of the Author but he lives in the Manchester area and from previous discussions on the subject I know John Hartley knows his name.So possibly John will assist with his name.

George

[John_Hartley]

George

Do you mean William (Bill) Mitchinson, author of "Cotton Town Comrades"? I don't know the book you mention, but I can only think of Bill as a local author on the subject of Pioneers.

John

[Joe Sweeney]

Kate,

Pioneer battalions did not exist in the Pre War British Army. However, they did in the pre-war Indian Army.

I would suggest you seek a copy of "Pioneer Battalions in the Great War, Organized and intelligent Labour" KW Mitchinson.

This book will answer all question in detail.

Joe Sweeney

[Broznitsky]

K.W. Mitchinson's "Pioneer Battalions in the Great War: Organized and Intelligent Labour."

As pioneers were used very close to combat and sometimes joined in, they would not have received anybody other than A1 category.

Part of their role was engineering, part was labouring; in the battalion I study, many of the ORs were skilled tradesmen, the officers engineers and draughtsmen.

[dycer]

Kate,John and all,

Joe and Broz have detailed the Book and Author I was thinking of.Thank you.

John.If I remember correctly the Book your refer to was about a particular Battalion.Mr Mitchinson then went on to write a general book about the Pioneers.

George

[John_Hartley]

George

"Cotton Town Comrades" is the story of the 24th Manchesters (the Oldham Pals) - a pioneer Bn. I keep forgetting to buy a copy !!

John

[David T]

Kate,

As to the selection of battalions to become Divisional pioneer formations, you might be interested in the convoluted story of the 1/7th Battalion, Durham Light Infantry. Little more than six months after the battalion landed at Boulogne (April 1915) it was selected for conversion for the division of which it formed part, 50th (Northumbrian) Division.

Initially, it's sister 1/8th Battalion, DLI was recommended for the role but that recommendation was overruled because the battalion did not have the requisite seven to eight hundred men specified by GHQ. The 1/6th Battalion, DLI was rejected for the same reason and, with well over nine hundred men, its sister 1/9th Battalion, DLI was rejected because it was deemed to be too strong. That left the 1/7th Battalion, DLI as one of the only other options available to the Division, which appointment was approved. On 15 November 1915, the battalion was withdrawn from the 151st Infantry Brigade although, purely for administrative purposes, it remained loosely attached. A period of intensive training followed, lasting thirty-three days. The programme included both pioneering and conventional infantry training, such as musketry and several route marches varying from five to fourteen miles.

I've done a fair amount of research on the DLI battalions that filled pioneering roles (1/7th, later the 1/9th also, 11th and 22nd), so if there are any other aspects you'd like info on, hopefully, I might be able to help.

David T.

[Guest 2contemptable]

Hello Kate,

Regarding a Pioneer Battalion from across the pond, the 16th Royal Irish Rifles was the Pioneer Battalion for the 36th Ulster Division. It was also known as the 2nd County Down battalion within the regiment. It was recruited from the County Down area in 1914, although it underwent basic training in Lurgan County Armagh prior to moving to England with the division in 1915.

There is an excellent book on this battalion, The Terrors: 16th (Pioneer) Battalion Royal Irish Rifles by Stuart N. White written in 1996.

This book provides details of their formation, early training and their part in the war, inluding details of casualties and extracts from the War Diary.

Hope this is some help.

Regards

James