John_Hartley Posted 26 December , 2014 Share Posted 26 December , 2014 I’ve often passed by the location of the Kinmel Park Camp and, from time to time, have stopped at Bodelwyddan Church, where there are a number of burials of men who died at the camp, including those who died as a result of the 1919 riots. The riots are one of those wartime subjects which have continued to be a matter of controversy. The riots left five men dead and several convicted of mutiny and sentenced to lengthy terms of imprisonment. So, when I saw this 50 page booklet at a family history fair, I snapped it up. Now, before I go on, let me say I have no time for Putkowski. I remember his brief presence on this forum before he was banned. I remember the rude and aggressive language. And I remember that, rather than discuss issues as we usually do here, he resorted to threats of legal action which effectively shut down discussion. No, I have absolutely no time for the man. That said, this is a detailed and factual account of the riots, well supported by reference to original source material (mainly the court of inquiry and contemporary newspaper accounts). The booklet was written in 1989 and published by the Flintshire Historical Society. Unlike later, more well known writing, he does not drift off into “political” pronouncements (well, only rarely) and the writing is all the better for that. I appreciate that this will have limited interest but worth a read if you can bag a cheap secondhand copy (Abebooks has a handful of copies). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clive_hughes Posted 26 December , 2014 Share Posted 26 December , 2014 Copies of the book used to be sold at St.Mary's Church Bodelwyddan, but perhaps that may no longer be the case? Clive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralphjd Posted 27 December , 2014 Share Posted 27 December , 2014 When I was a little lad many moons ago, our family hols were always held for a week in Kinmel Bay caravan park . Obviously never knew about these riots at age 7 or 8. Found the subject interesting since, will try and obtain the booklet John mentions. Regards.Ralph. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralphjd Posted 27 December , 2014 Share Posted 27 December , 2014 Not at £18 though !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hartley Posted 27 December , 2014 Author Share Posted 27 December , 2014 Not at £18 though !! Agreed. Deffo not worth that. Think I paid a fiver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralphjd Posted 27 December , 2014 Share Posted 27 December , 2014 Didn't they have two ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Hone Posted 27 December , 2014 Share Posted 27 December , 2014 In 1999, having read Julian Puttkowski's book I took some friends to Bodelwyddan Castle and the 'Marble Church' on the 80th anniversary of the riot. I was very surprised that the staff at the castle ( an outpost of the National Portrait Gallery) appeared never to have heard of the riot and that there was no signage etc about the role of the castle and its environs during the Great War. I suspect that the centenary may be more prominently commemorated. Apparently they already have a section of practice trenches on display. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clive_hughes Posted 27 December , 2014 Share Posted 27 December , 2014 The Bodelwyddan practice trenches now have at least one display board up, though signage from the actual castle out to them could be improved. They were due to undergo an official "sample" excavation in about October, to see whether the trenches were originally full-depth or just shallower ones. There will be a Christmas Truce exhibition there for a time in January, which has travelled from Dresden and via sites in France and Belgium. Clive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Birch Posted 27 December , 2014 Share Posted 27 December , 2014 The maps alone are worth a look. I thought it was well researched, although the text has a certain err.. slant. Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hartley Posted 27 December , 2014 Author Share Posted 27 December , 2014 although the text has a certain err.. slant. Erm, yes. I think describing the deaths as murders in the first paragraph sort of sets the scene but he does manage to get off the hyperbole quite quickly and get on to facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Hone Posted 16 August , 2015 Share Posted 16 August , 2015 After years of threatening to do so I stopped at Bodelwyddan to see the practice trenches. To be honest there is very little to see. There are a few indentations, lengths of very shallow trench and what might have been a traverse. There are a few display boards dotted about but these describe trench warfare in general rather than what you can see in front of you on the site. There is some description of Kinmel Camp but I don't recall any mention of the riots. I didn't see any sign of the reconstruction of part of the system mentioned as happening from 2015 onwards in the castle leaflet. The most exciting bit was that one of the more obvious bits of trench was cordoned off due to the presence of a wasps' nest! The castle grounds are very pleasant and the interior, which houses the overspill from the Victorian collection of the National Portrait Gallery, is interesting. The pictures include a portrait of Field Marshal Lord Roberts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill24chev Posted 16 August , 2015 Share Posted 16 August , 2015 Was what is now Sunnyvale Holiday Camp,( the first camp over the bridge from Rhyl on the sea side of main road), the most easterly part of the Kimnel Bay camp? It appears, from Google Maps Satellite picture that it is now a Caravan Park, but when I stayed there a few times in the 1960's and early 70's there was "Chalet" accommodation converted from the typical wooden huts of the WW1 camp. it also had a number of larger buildings used for the holiday camp Night Spot, Shops and Restaurant, probably the camp cookhouse, and messes. It also had two large open spaces which must have been parade grounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hartley Posted 16 August , 2015 Author Share Posted 16 August , 2015 The Castle is now a Warner hotel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Hone Posted 16 August , 2015 Share Posted 16 August , 2015 Part of the castle at the back is a hotel but the rooms containing the NPG pictures etc are still open to the public and there are an adventure playground, formal garden and other features in the extensive grounds. Admission is £6-95 per adult. It was quite busy when we paid a visit last week. After being requisitioned by the army during the Great War, the castle housed a private girls' school, Lowther College, until 1982. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 20 August , 2015 Share Posted 20 August , 2015 I’ve often passed by the location of the Kinmel Park Camp and, from time to time, have stopped at Bodelwyddan Church, where there are a number of burials of men who died at the camp, including those who died as a result of the 1919 riots. The riots are one of those wartime subjects which have continued to be a matter of controversy. The riots left five men dead and several convicted of mutiny and sentenced to lengthy terms of imprisonment. So, when I saw this 50 page booklet at a family history fair, I snapped it up. Now, before I go on, let me say I have no time for Putkowski. I remember his brief presence on this forum before he was banned. I remember the rude and aggressive language. And I remember that, rather than discuss issues as we usually do here, he resorted to threats of legal action which effectively shut down discussion. No, I have absolutely no time for the man. That said, this is a detailed and factual account of the riots, well supported by reference to original source material (mainly the court of inquiry and contemporary newspaper accounts). The booklet was written in 1989 and published by the Flintshire Historical Society. Unlike later, more well known writing, he does not drift off into “political” pronouncements (well, only rarely) and the writing is all the better for that. I appreciate that this will have limited interest but worth a read if you can bag a cheap secondhand copy (Abebooks has a handful of copies). John. I am interested in the old Putowski thread but can't find it. Tried to PM you but your PM is full. MG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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