chrisharley9 Posted 3 November , 2004 Share Posted 3 November , 2004 Did the RGA TF recruit nationally or locally. what battery would a chap from Enfield join All The Best Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KONDOA Posted 3 November , 2004 Share Posted 3 November , 2004 Hi Chris, RGA TF's tended to be local, however this position was not necessarily the case after 1914-15. What is your mans army number, this can with a bit of jiggery pokery tell you the Batteries for a particular place. Roop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisharley9 Posted 3 November , 2004 Author Share Posted 3 November , 2004 Roop Name: TEAGUE, RICHARD EDWIN Initials: R E Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Gunner Regiment: Royal Garrison Artillery Unit Text: Indian Ammunition Park Age: 36 Date of Death: 25/05/1915 Service No: 32 Additional information: Son of Richard E. Teague; husband of Ellen Teague, of 1, Gilpen Crescent, Upper Edmonton, London. Native of Enfield, Middlesex. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: I. A. 139. Cemetery: LONGUENESSE (ST. OMER) SOUVENIR CEMETERY All The Best Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KONDOA Posted 3 November , 2004 Share Posted 3 November , 2004 Hi again Chris, I forgot to say , post 1917 TF renumbering army Nos. Your man died pre -renumbering. Each TF battery in the country would have a No 32 . I cannot offhand connect Indian Ammunition Park with any particular battery at this time.Ill ssee what I can find Roop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KONDOA Posted 3 November , 2004 Share Posted 3 November , 2004 Chris, Slight assumption here!! Indian Ammunition Park I am resonably happy is either Meerut or Lahore Divisions. Both Lahore & Meerut were in France in May 1915. The ammunition park would be under ASC . Lahore Division had 109th Heavy Battery Meerut Division had 110th Heavy Battery (all courtesy of LLT) Both batteries formed after outbreak of war. Just need the affiliated city for these battery numbers now. Have you checked SDGW as it may give enlistment place as a clue. Roop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisharley9 Posted 4 November , 2004 Author Share Posted 4 November , 2004 Roop From SDGW 32 gunner richard teague royal garrison artillery died 25/5/15 f&f born- enfield enlisted- kingston on thames lived- wimbledon All The Best Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KONDOA Posted 4 November , 2004 Share Posted 4 November , 2004 Chris This looks like your man. Medal card of Teague, Richard Corps Regiment No Rank Indian Army Royal Garrison Artillery SR/32 Gunner Indian Army Royal Garrison Artillery 275032 Gunner Kingston upon Thames seems somehow connected with India as the 1st Mountain Battery was also recruited there and it ended up in India. Roop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisharley9 Posted 4 November , 2004 Author Share Posted 4 November , 2004 Roop Many thanks. Does the SR stand for Special Reserve? All The Best Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KONDOA Posted 4 November , 2004 Share Posted 4 November , 2004 Chris, cant confirm exact meaning S/R but seems a possibility because not all numbers have it. Now then!!! The 275 prefix to the Reg No covers: 7th Divisional Artillery Column Royal Garrison Artillery (Lahore Div) 8th Divisional Artillery Column Royal Garrison Artillery ( Regular Empire ) 3rd Divisional Artillery Column Royal Garrison Artillery( Meerut Div) some RFA ranks but not RGA of "target" batteries. 109th and 110th reg nos do not correspond By what I can determine from LLT the 8th Division did not have any RGA batteries but RFA Howitzer Batteries so perhaps we can rule out that option. Thus your man was a gunner (= Private) in the Artillery/ammunition Column and not actually manning the guns unless you have evidence to the contrary. Roop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rflory Posted 4 November , 2004 Share Posted 4 November , 2004 Roop wrote in one message: Kingston upon Thames seems somehow connected with India as the 1st Mountain Battery was also recruited there and it ended up in India. and in another message: The 275 prefix to the Reg No covers: 7th Divisional Artillery Column Royal Garrison Artillery (Lahore Div) 8th Divisional Artillery Column Royal Garrison Artillery ( Regular Empire ) 3rd Divisional Artillery Column Royal Garrison Artillery( Meerut Div) I would be interested in the evidence for each of these statements. In the first statement you do not indicate whether you mean the 1st Mountain Battery, RGA or the 1st Indian Mountain Battery, but in either case both of these units were in existence well before the beginning of the Great War and while some men for the 1st Mountain Battery, RGA (the Indian Mt. Btys had RA officers but Indian other ranks) may have originally been from Kingston upon Thames, the battery was a regular RGA battery and would have been made up of personnel who enlisted on a nation-wide basis. In the second statement I would first indicate that the proper name is "Divisional Ammunition Column" and while I do not have my information at hand ( I am not at home), I am quite sure that since those were divisional ammunition columns they would have been RFA, not RGA. Further those three units were regular units and the men that formed those units would have been enlisted nationwide over a period of time and I have not seen any evidence that regular service numbers (such as the 250xxx series) can be tied to any particular unit. Obviously, I stand to be corrected if you have information to the contrary. Finally SR does stand for Special Reserve. Regards. Dick Flory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KONDOA Posted 4 November , 2004 Share Posted 4 November , 2004 I would be interested in the evidence for each of these statements. The reference to 1st Mountain Battery is from this man who was still a policeman in October 1916 and enlisted Kingston upon Thames.The comment regarding Kingston being connected with India is only circumstantial (especially as I meant Pakistan). Name: FORTMAN, WILLIAM HENRY GEORGE Initials: W H G Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Gunner Regiment: Royal Garrison Artillery Unit Text: 1st Mountain Bty. Age: 29 Date of Death: 18/10/1918 Service No: 160284 Additional information: Husband of Dorothy Joy Fortman, of 2, Bristol Cottages, Thistlecroft, Hersham, Walton-on-Thames. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: 4. A. 3. Cemetery: RAWALPINDI WAR CEMETERY With regard to service numbers, I agree that regular units would recruit over a period of time. However an empirical guide I use (but wouldnt necessarily recommend) is to use post 1917 numbering as a reverse sort in the MIC index. Not especially scientific but works on the principal (assumption) that the majority of a number group would still be present in the group of units covered. From the CWGC headstone information a connection was evident with Indian Units, confirmed by MIC index card lookup. Given the date of death and location it seemed reasonable that the subject would be associated with one of these units in some manner. The RGA focus is perhaps incorrect and originates in the original post on this subject but has not been further questioned given that the divisions identified as possibilities had Heavy batteries assigned to them and the MIC / CWGC information stated RGA. The batteries identified did not have a number sequence sufficiently convincing to affirm them in this number prefix group. This does not mean they do not fall into this group but there is no evidence on the MIC index to suggest that to be the case.However, in many cases there are no 6 figure numbers for these batteries!!! The number group that could be affirmed as the strongest contender was those shown for the Divisional Ammunition Column (the titles above are those from MIC and so appear incorrect as you state). The conclusion that he was most probably associated with the DAC seemed reasonable and seemed to be confirmed (at least in part) by the headstone inscription "Indian Ammunition Park". The use of prefix numbers as I have said is empirical,a check of prefix numbers on SDWG however helps eliminate or confirm much of the assumption. I have recently carried out a similar excercise for the Hull number group, cross checked with SDGW and then on the 1901 census. I am so far happy with the degree of confirmation. Roop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rflory Posted 4 November , 2004 Share Posted 4 November , 2004 Roop: I think I understand your thinking and it appears that you are making an assumption that the regular ranks posted to regular RA units such as the 1st Mountain Battery and the DACs that you mention have grouped service numbers similar to the TG artillery units, and that is not correct. Other ranks in the RA were enlisted nationwide and were given service numbers at the time of enlistment essentially in chronological order of enlistment. After training they were then randomly assigned to regularly artillery units. Because of this you can not find a man assigned to the 1st Mountain Battery on the CWGC and assume that another man in the same unit had a similar service number or enlisted from the same area. This only works for six-digit RA TA service numbers. Similarly you can not take the CWGC listings of a number of men from a particular regular artillery unit and assume that their service numbers are indicative of the service numbers of the other men who served in that unit. This doesn't work because their service number was assigned at the time they enlisted, not after they joined a specific unit. For example, I have the nominal rolls of a number of Great War regular artillery units and when those are examined one finds that the service numbers of the men vary tremendously and while small groups of men who trained together may have been assigned to the same unit, they represent, in most cases less than 2-3% of the men in that unit and all the rest of the service numbers are completely different. Regards. Dick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisharley9 Posted 5 November , 2004 Author Share Posted 5 November , 2004 Roop Many, many thanks for all your help All The Best Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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