Two Regimental numbers

[Glenn Warnes]

I am currently looking into Bombardier Alfred Warnes RFA on the Medal Roll and it shows 2 regimental numbers 1552 and 742059 (6 digit Territorial?).

May be a possible family member (g/fathers brother).

Just like to clarify the 2 numbers and which one do I use to organize research at the PRO as I will have to use a researcher.

[HarryBettsMCDCM]

The numbers are Linked in as much as the short number was his original one,the 6 figure number his post 1916 TF Number{which will correspond loosely to the former,as they were issued in rote,ie Number 1 would in theory have been issued with the Number XXX001 & so on,{adjusted by those previously KiA,left the unit,posted,etc,so it doesnt work in practice,only in that,the lower the original number the lower the new number in his units block}Therefore the Researcher will need both numbers to do the job properly,as documentation,will change as the numbers changed.

[Chris_Baker]

742059 was from the batch (740001-745000) issued to the 4th Brigade RFA in the Welsh Division.

This unit was officially titled as CCLXVIII (IV Welsh) Brigade, RFA in 53rd (Welsh) Division TF.

[Glenn Warnes]

Thanks for that fellas, in relation to the original number would that have been a pre war Territorial number or a later enlistment.

My research from the information received on the forum is that:

The 4 Brigade RFA (1/4 Brigade with the 53rd) was part of the 53 (Welsh) Division. The 4 Brigade later became the 267 Brigade (after a short time as the 268 Brigade) comprising A & B Batteries.

The 4 Brigade consisted of the 1st Monmouthshire Battery, 2nd Monmouthshire Battery & 3rd Monmouthshire Battery. All from the South Wales, Monmouthshire area. Designated 1/1, 1/2, 1/3 Batteries of the 4th Brigade. The division artillery went to France in Nov 1915 where it trained with other units of the RA. The divisional artillery had rejoined the 53rd Division by 22 Feb 1916 after the 53rd left Gallipoli. The 4th Brigade eventually becoming the 267 Brigade

The 267 Brigade severed in Egypt and Palestine as A & B Batteries, C Battery being broken up between A & B Bty’s

The fact that Alfred Warnes was in the Welsh Division possibly confirms the fact that he was my g/fathers, Sgt (Daniel) Frank Warnes, younger brother along with the fact that they both served in the RA as did there father in the 1870’s.

I wish he was as easy to track

[Guest jabber]

Hi ,i have been watching the history channel and my mother said my great grandfather was killed in France during the great war, I would like to find out about where he was and when and how he died, call me sentimental but i told my mother i would try and find out. All I know that he was from Newport in S wales and his name was Baker. Is there a website I could use to try and track the info?

[BRIAN TALMER]

Hello Jabber,

you have come to the right place. The first thing you need to do is to go to the main site which is the Long Long Trail - www.1914-1918.net There you will find lots of useful info on tracing a soldier.

the National Archives website will allow you to search for his medal index card which will tell you the megals he was entitled to.

The Commonwealth War Graves site www.CWGC.org will give you details of where he is buried or commemorated if he doesn't have a known grave.

When you have some of these facts post again and you will be able to get more help.

best of luck with your search

Lesley

[HarryBettsMCDCM]

in relation to the original number would that have been a pre war Territorial number or a later enlistment.

With the Number 1552,I would expect him to be either a 1910~13 Enlistee or a Very early 1914 Recruit,there was a big TF Recruiting Drive in the July of 1914 I believe,so he may well have been part of that,depending on the size of the Pre War Battery

[Glenn Warnes]

Regarding Bombadier Albert Warnes I have specified both regimental numbers and will also check with the South Wales Borderers Museum and see what they have on record when I get the results of the PRO search.

As another matter would there be any point in getting the PRO records WO97/6173 (pre WW1) in regard to Sgt D F Warnes as he enlisted in 1905 or would all the records be in the ones already researched.

[HarryBettsMCDCM]

If his service was continuous I expect the Records will be held together,however if he had left the Army prior to 1914 & Re~enlisted they will be seperate

[Guest jabber]

thanks for the info regarding my grandad, I found his details on the commonwealth war graves commission, his name was not baker but delahay , richard, henry

I found his record and it confirmed where he lived etc, he was killed 24/04/1915 in the second battle of ypres, his body was never found and his name is on the Menin gate, he died when he was 36 and left a wife and 7 kids in the docklands of Newport.

Is there any more info I could find out, his medal records only came up when putting in his name and service no and came up as henry , not richard.

thanks for the help

jabber