The reaction to war memorials

[seb phillips]

I was hoping folks could help me with some book suggestions.

I've recently developed something of an interest in the reaction of old soldiers to the post was 'memorial boom'. For instance, I've run across at least one riot caused by former soldiers when a war memorial was unveiled, but everyone invited to the ceremony was a local bigwig, not a veteran among them. Its not something often mentioned,and I'd like to start some research on it.

Does anyone have some suggestions of a book which might touch on this?

Many thanks,

Seb

[Derek Black]

Lots of books on memorials, but book on memorial reactions, a bit niche i think.

You'd be better off trawling through old newspapers for the contentious stuff.

There's a few articles of disagreements relating to memorial committees and returned soldiers regarding inclusions of names of those executed by the army. Newport in Fife springs to mind.

[The Scorer]

I vaguely remember that there's a story of a protest by unemployed ex-servicemen at The Cenotaph in Whitehall sometime in the early / mid 1920s.

I can't remember where I saw it, but I think that it might be in one of the recent books on "The Unknown Warrior".

[geraint]

Yes - the local newspapers are our best bet for all kinds of local reactions to the local memorials, war trophies, and all the other bits and pieces as society clashed over veterans and shirkers, those in work, out of work, seeking work. Women and non-enlisters in the demobbed soldier's place - all sorts of tensions coming up for air. My local rag, on microfisch in the Archives is excellent at reporting such intrigues.

[kenf48]

I was hoping folks could help me with some book suggestions.

I've recently developed something of an interest in the reaction of old soldiers to the post was 'memorial boom'. For instance, I've run across at least one riot caused by former soldiers when a war memorial was unveiled, but everyone invited to the ceremony was a local bigwig, not a veteran among them. Its not something often mentioned,and I'd like to start some research on it.

Does anyone have some suggestions of a book which might touch on this?

Many thanks,

Seb

Try 'Memorials of the Great War In Britain' subtitle 'The symbolism and politics of Remembrance' by Alex King ISBN 1-86973-988-1

The Bibliography is extensive, and chapter references will make searching local newspapers online much easier. It's expensive for a fairly slim volume but inter-library loan should sort it.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Memorials-Great-War-Britain-Remembrance/dp/1859739881

However I think you are referring to the Luton Peace Day Riot when veterans, or returning soldiers and their families burned down the Town Hall, this was not at the unveiling of the War Memorial but the celebrations for 'Peace Day' in 1919 see http://libcom.org/history/1919-the-luton-riots

There is a book on the event 'Where they burnt the town hall down" David Craddick http://www.amazon.co.uk/books/dp/1871199395

I've not read it and can't comment.

There was controversy over the type and purpose of war memorials as discussed by Alex King as well as artistic and cultural controversy. For example in a village I research the memorial was a cricket ground and pavilion built on donated land, there is no 'town memorial' but a memorial was raised by the congregation of each church and chapel. This argument over utility versus civic pride took place across the country, as did the involvement of the Church which was often resented. Most of these disputes were eventually settled.

The social unrest however did not resolve itself so easily and culminated in the General Strike in 1926. The reaction was not so much to the war memorials but to the war itself, which of course is why it's so fascinating.

Ken

[clive_hughes]

In Llanberis, North Wales the ex-servicemen lobbied for a memorial hall: the council opted for a much cheaper 3-sided war memorial. The reaction was such that it was afterwards known locally as "the sauce bottle"!

A veteran once told me that the 1919 peace celebration parade in Llandudno was headed by the shopkeepers and local council. One ex-serviceman was so distressed by this that he committed suicide.

Clive

Ed: Whoops, wrong town memorial - corrected!

Edited 6 November , 2015 by LST_164

[geraint]

Here in Ruthin, many of the local ex servicemen favoured a memorial recreation field. The town council decided on a monument featuring St George slaying a dragon. Didn't go down well.

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

Similar story in Llanfairpwllgwyngyll,Anglesey.

Local dignitaries headed by the Marquess of Anglesey wanted a memorial tablet as part of a memorial hall.

Returning soldiers wanted a more visible memorial, a large village clock.

The village split into two factions, and ended up with both.

The story is described in this book - "Y Rhwyg" ("The Schism"):

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/1845274601/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1446854319

It's only available in Welsh.

I must declare an interest in that it's written by my brother.

It is said that the Marquess' land agent for the rest of his life, whenever he had any dealings in the village (i.e most days of his working life), would cross to the other side of the road, avert his gaze, and shield his eyes with his hand, to avoid looking at the clock.

And he lived until 1968.

[Old Tom]

'The Glorious Dead' by Geoff Archer includes lists of memorials and some treatment of their funding, but I don't recall anything about reaction. Even today feelings run high (ish) A local memorial here was moved by the council some years ago as it was not treated with due deference by market traders where it was first erected in front of the town hall. It is now in the church yard where there is insufficient room for commemoration services. From time to time campaigns to put it back start and fizzle out.

Old Tom

[Moonraker]

Another Peace Day riot at Swindon

BBC Radio Wiltshire

Moonraker

[Stoppage Drill]

I was hoping folks could help me with some book suggestions.

I've recently developed something of an interest in the reaction of old soldiers to the post was 'memorial boom'. For instance, I've run across at least one riot caused by former soldiers when a war memorial was unveiled, but everyone invited to the ceremony was a local bigwig, not a veteran among them. Its not something often mentioned,and I'd like to start some research on it.

Does anyone have some suggestions of a book which might touch on this?

Many thanks,

Seb

It wouldn't hurt to acquire a copy of "At the Going Down of the Sun" by Derek Boorman Ebor Press, York, 1988.

[The Scorer]

However I think you are referring to the Luton Peace Day Riot when veterans, or returning soldiers and their families burned down the Town Hall, this was not at the unveiling of the War Memorial but the celebrations for 'Peace Day' in 1919 see http://libcom.org/history/1919-the-luton-riots

There is a book on the event 'Where they burnt the town hall down" David Craddick http://www.amazon.co.uk/books/dp/1871199395

I've not read it and can't comment.

As I said earlier, I can't remember any firm details about the incident I mentioned, so you could well be right about this; thanks.

[kenf48]

As I said earlier, I can't remember any firm details about the incident I mentioned, so you could well be right about this; thanks.

I was responding to the OP which is why I quoted their post.

There was disruption at Cenotaph Remembrance ceremonies throughout the twenties, especially by disabled veterans who believed too much attention was being paid to the dead while their hardship was ignored. I alluded to these protests which occurred across the UK (and Ireland), these protests were a reaction to the process of Remembrance and given a focus by the memorial and the event. The memorials themselves, including the Cenotaph, tended to provoke controversy over such issues as design, cost and utility.

I think there is a clear distinction between the two although both illustrate there was no universal equanimity around memorials and remembrance.

Ken

[The Scorer]

Thanks again.

[Old Tom]

I think remembrance has several different meanings or, perhaps better, interpretations. A dictionary definition is the act of remembering. The reasons for that act are the key to he differences. To try and name a few; an anniversary, personal emotion, a passage of text, an object seen or a sound heard. Any of these can be augmented by knowledge or personall connection. In some circumstances and in some people some manisfestations provoke others to anger in some form or other. I'm not at all sure that this attempt at a generalisation means anything except that in remembrance there are few, if any, rights and wrongs.

Old Tom

[MikeyH]

Seb,

A book that features the topic of loss, memory and commemoration is 'Not forgotten' by Neil Oliver, which looks at a number of Great War memorials and the stories behind them.

I found it a very interesting read, there was an excellent Channel Four series of the same title at the time (2005) that you may recall.

Mike.

[DaveBrigg]

Siegfried Sassoon made his feelings about the Menin Gate pretty clear.

On Passing the New Menin Gate, by Siegfried Sassoon

Who will remember, passing through this Gate,

The unheroic Dead who fed the guns?

Who shall absolve the foulness of their fate, -

Those doomed, conscripted, unvictorious ones?

Crudely renewed, the Salient holds its own.

Paid are its dim defenders by this pomp;

Paid, with a pile of peace-complacent stone,

The armies who endured that sullen swamp.

Here was the world's worst wound. And here with pride

'Their name liveth for evermore' the Gateway claims.

Was ever an immolation so belied

As these intolerably nameless names?

Well might the Dead who struggled in the slime

Rise and deride this sepulchre of crime.

[kenf48]

On November 11 1939 it was reported the war memorial at Oxford had been defaced the previous day with black paint 'If you fight now their deaths will have been in vain'. It was reported efforts were being made to clean up the memorial before the British Legion ceremony that day.

Ken