Detachment of General Officers

[AndyHollinger]

As I make my way through Vimy by Berton, he continually makes references to senior British Generals who were so detached from their commands as to "never see the results of their orders" and to eat well laid banquets by candle-light while their troops were brushing the mud off of scraps of biscuit before wolfing them down.

Were they that remote?

My own thinking was it would have to be at the Army or Army Group level if it was at all. The Corp commanders, while certainly back off the trench line, certainly must have visited their sectors and certainly seen their men off to the attack and watched them return ... or at least see the numbers before and after - more than on reports - by visiting their units.

I guess I am struck by the vehemence of the writing - From my own experience, I know that all fighting men "hate" staff and support troops - but from a historian this level of writing is hard to fathom. The junior officers (or even field grade) involved with "planning" - didn't they wear the "Staff" Red Tabs - could be seen as detached ... but the commanders?

Lee lived in a spartan matter as part of his support for his troops ... heck, even Eisenhower went to see the paratroopers off ... I guess I have a hard time believing that men commanding others to their death could not have some contact with reality ... but maybe that's the romantic in me.

[armourersergeant]

I can certainly say that General Snow often liked to go to the front, and it was the fact he could not get about in the front area (old injury) that led him to beleive he could no longer do the job as he saw it.

I think this Generals not visiting the troops is just a myth. Congrieve lost a hand whilst touring the front and others did go to the front. The problem arises when you try to show eveidence of it happening. Only a small amount of men saw these Generals and thus it is not often seen in print from the ranks.

regards

Arm.

[Robert Dunlop]

'Seeing' the results of orders requires more than a visual inspection. I am currently reading the most recent biography about Plumer. He fought in some of the many colonial wars and then in South Africa. During these occations, he was involved in front line action and saw the effects of war first-hand. Plumer had seen the effects of poorly planned attacks against capable defenders armed with modern weapons. He carried these impressions into his roles as divisional, corps and then army commander. It seems he felt the losses of men quite keenly. As a result, he strove to do the best by the men under his command. Plumer's colleagues will have had similar experiences but may not have 'seen' the lessons to be learned. There are none so blind...

The role of the general is to see the overall picture. The WW1 battlefield was too big for a general to go to the front and see the results, unless, like Congreve, you took to the air! A general could only see a small fraction of what was happening. If things are going badly in that area, then you might over- or under-react. Information must be processed via the chain of command, then collated on the battlemap. That's how you see the results. Sometimes, generals did choose to go forward. Haig's ride at First Ypres is a classic example. Usually, such an excursion would have a very specific purpose - to contact a lower level commander about a specific issue, not to get an impression of what war was like.

Many generals were personally brave men. The bigger problem was to stop them trying to get forward and see what was happening.

Robert

[Robert Dunlop]

Here's a little bit more about Plumer and his Chief-of-Staff Harrington:

'At the end of [2nd Army's] daily conferences most of those who had attended, including Plumer himself, did not return to their offices but got into their motor-cars or mounted their horses to visit the units, establishments or formations in their care. Their brief was to help. Plumer had, Harrington emphasized, been a regimental soldier and never forgot it. He impressed upon [his commanders] firmly that [they] were nothing but servants of the Troops and he never allowed an order to be issued without considering how it would be received by a regimental officer and soldier'

'In his attempt to keep in touch with all that was happening in his vast command, Plumer used a further instrument. To each of his corps he attached a young liaison officer, his special task to know each of the thirty or so infantry battalions in the corps and to spend at least two nights each week in the front-line trenches with them. The essence of their task was to be trusted and not treated as spies. Liaison officers were nothing new: both Wellington and Haig used them. But the close links established between the officers concerned and the units to which they were attached was something quite new.'

But Plumer would not watch the opening of the Battle of Messines:

'"He was kneeling by his bedside, praying for those gallant officers and men who were at the moment attacking." Plumer's batman also confirmed that it was his master's habit to pray before a big attack. Imagination is needed to visualize the feelings of such a kind and devout man at the moment when thousands of young men are about to be killed as a consequence of the plan he has conceived and the order he has given.

Harrington relates that they met later in his office. When the news arrived that Messines Ridge had been captured, he remembered his general's hand on his shoulder and the tears in the old man's eyes.'

In a footnote, Powell, author of 'Plumer: The Soldiers' General' mentions:

'Haig had established his own forward headquarters in a train, and he followed the progress of the battle [of Messines] with a telescope from a hut prepared for him on the top of Mont Rouge, about two miles behind the battlefield.'

Robert

[armourersergeant]

Sounds like this is a good book, I have it next in line to read myself after i have finished a novel i am finishing. Perhaps we can compare and discuss after i have finished?

regards

Arm.

[Robert Dunlop]

Arm

Certainly. It is compelling. I am two-thirds the way through and, given the paucity of personal detail about Plumer, it is still a fascinating read.

Robert

[armourersergeant]

just finished will begin reading this today.

regards

Arm.