Plumer: A Soldiers' General

[Robert Dunlop]

Published by Pen & Sword (ISBN 1 84415 039 9)

This is a great read. It is the biography of Field Marshall Viscount Herbert Plumer of Messines. The author's father, who was wounded twice in the First World War, 'had little respect for the British generals who he blamed for the slaughter among his generation. He admitted only two exceptions. These were Monash, the Australian, and Plumer - "Old Plum and Apple", as the troops were said to call him.' Powell went on to research the great general. Unfortunately, Plumer himself had long since died and there were few people left alive who had known him well. In addition, Sir Herbert had all his correspondence and other material destroyed. Thus, source material could only include Plumer's letters to others, Harrington's book (he was Plumer's Chief-of-Staff in the Second Army), and other secondary sources.

The book covers the key chapters in Plumer's life, including his time as a regimental officer in the Sudan, Matabele, and then the Boer War. The majority of the book covers Plumer's roles in the First World War. The last chapters deal with Plumer's appointments post-war: commanding the occupation forces beside the Rhine, Governor-General of Malta, and the High Commissioner for Palestine. Most of the book describes the events that Plumer was associated with, rather than provide a lot of detail about the man. It is such a shame that so little can be gleaned about why, in his view, he became such a fine general - but the character and qualities of the man shine through. Powell wanted to avoid the worshipful style of Harrington. He has achieved this, not hiding the few episodes where Plumer was fallible. So there is a nice balance to the book. There are some interesting insights into the workings of the Plumer's staff as well. I was particularly intrigued to note that both BL Montgomery and Allenby served under Plumer, which may explain why they both epitomised careful staff work, training, and preparation for major offensives.

Plumer was buried in Westminster Abbey. 'Observers commented that men outnumbered women by ten to one in the great multitude that came to pay their respects to their departed war leader. Few wore medals, some were smartly dressed, some pathetically shabbily. Most were near middle-age. They were ex-servicemen in their countless numbers who had turned out to say goodbye to a man whom few had met and many had never seen, a general of the First World War, supposedly one of those who had so carelessly squandered the lives of their friends and comrades fourteen years and more before.'

Highly recommended.

Robert

[Ste]

I thoroughly enjoyed it too, Robert. I think the author did a good job considering the lack of personal primary sources he had to work with. It does lead to a lot of narrative, but that is unavoidable in this context.

I liked Plumer before I read this and I like him even more now.

Thanks for the review!

Ste

[armourersergeant]

Just started to read this one and only just getting into it but can say it has a good way about it that makes me want to turn the page.

regards

Arm.

[neverforget]

As I said in another thread somewhere about British Generals, if I could have had a say in whom I was to serve under, it would have been Plumer by a distance.

[Fattyowls]

Neverforget, thanks for commenting on this one. I wouldn't have spotted it otherwise. The book is now on my Christmas list and I am in complete accord with your view about who you would want to serve under. I'd particularly like to know more about the team dynamic between Plumer and Harrington; it definitely appears more than the sum of the parts. One of the things I want to do when I finally get to walk the Messines Ridge is to see if the theory that Haig should have let Plumer develop the Messines attack onto the Gheluvelt plateau feels right on the ground at least.

[centurion]

Always thought Sassoons poem

GOOD-MORNING; good-morning!’ the General said
When we met him last week on our way to the line.
Now the soldiers he smiled at are most of ’em dead,
And we’re cursing his staff for incompetent swine.
‘He’s a cheery old card,’ grunted Harry to Jack
As they slogged up to Arras with rifle and pack.
. . . .
But he did for them both by his plan of attack.

Was very unfair to Plumer (who made a special point of greeting his troops as they went into line) as his staff were probably more competent than most (unlike those of Gough's who was the neighbouring commander)

[Stoppage Drill]

Plumer was, of course, French's choice to replace Grierson, but Kitchener insisted on Smith-Dorrien.

Regardless of the relative merits of the two men (P and SD) it is probable that the friction and personal antipathy which bedevilled the French/SD relationship (to such disadvantage) would have been absent if French had been given his choice, and that the development of the war (at least in its early days and on the British front) would have been significantly different.

Plumer's nickname with the men was more commonly "Daddy" I believe, rather than Plum. His appearance contributed towards the overall image, I think, and he was widely thought to have been an inspiration for Colonel Blimp.

I'm inclined to think that his suitability for command on the Western Front is largely down to the fact that he was an infantryman.

[centurion]

I'm inclined to think that his suitability for command on the Western Front is largely down to the fact that he was an infantryman.

Or possibly, since he made his name in the South African War as a commander of mounted infantry, because he had the flexibility of mind to see both sides of the coin!

[Fattyowls]

The General is the only poem of WW1 that I know off by heart for some reason; when I'm in Arras something usually triggers me into reciting it. If I remember correctly it was the 56th Division plaque last time I was there. I wonder if Gough or any of the other thrusters greeted their troops, equally would I be right in saying that Plumer never commanded the Arras sector?

[Stoppage Drill]

, because he had the flexibility of mind

That's what I meant - an infantryman !

I would suggest to you that his name was made three years before the ABW, in Rhodesia. If nothing else, he saw what effect a Maxim gun could have on massed infantry.

[Fattyowls]

Keep this up lads and I might not need to get the book for Christmas; more pocket money to spend on sweets and comics.

[Steven Broomfield]

Or possibly, since he made his name in the South African War as a commander of mounted infantry, because he had the flexibility of mind to see both sides of the coin!

I thought Mr Drill was being un-necessarily provocative and chose to ignore him.

[hazelclark]

Plumer was one of the few generals about whom I had not read much in the way of criticism and as others have said he was my "favourite". I remember being very put out when I read Sassoon's poem. It was the first time I had heard anything bad about him. I have since read that he agreed to something or other at 3rd Ypres that surprised me. I would still choose him to serve under though.

Hazel

[Fattyowls]

Hazel, interesting point about Sassoon and Plumer which I was trying to get at in my previous entry. Forgive me if I'm being dim but has it been established that Mad Jack was writing about a specific general and if so was this Plumer? I read the George Sherston books years ago but nothing sticks in my memory (this is happening a lot lately).

Pete,

[hazelclark]

Hazel, interesting point about Sassoon and Plumer which I was trying to get at in my previous entry. Forgive me if I'm being dim but has it been established that Mad Jack was writing about a specific general and if so was this Plumer? I read the George Sherston books years ago but nothing sticks in my memory (this is happening a lot lately).

Pete,

Have seen this poem quoted several times in books about the War but to be honest, it seems to be quoted in the context of different general's actions each time. For instance, Martin Gilbert quotes it in connection, I think, with Allenby at Arras. Can't remember where I saw it attributed to Plumer except that I was disappointed at the time.

Hazel

P.S. I looked this up and it looks as though it was triggered by his regiment meeting General Maaxe on his way to Arras? Beats me!

H.

[daggers]

I seem to have missed out, as I cannot see the name of the author, other than as 'Powell', in the first post.

D

[Fattyowls]

Have seen this poem quoted several times in books about the War but to be honest, it seems to be quoted in the context of different general's actions each time. For instance, Martin Gilbert quotes it in connection, I think, with Allenby at Arras. Can't remember where I saw it attributed to Plumer except that I was disappointed at the time.

Hazel

P.S. I looked this up and it looks as though it was triggered by his regiment meeting General Maaxe on his way to Arras? Beats me!

H.

Hazel, that's brilliant, thank you. I could be wrong (often am) but I thought Plumer was mainly if not totally associated with Ypres. It could be somebody thinking that Plumer greeted his troops, must have been him Sassoon was referring to. Lazy history.

I seem to have missed out, as I cannot see the name of the author, other than as 'Powell', in the first post.

D

Dags,

Geoffrey Powell.

Pete.

[Stoppage Drill]

Frank Richards says at the start of Chapter XVIII of "Old Soldiers etc." that his Battalion (and Sassoons - 2/RWF) were inspected by the "General of the Corps we were joining, as the battalion marched by him" (on the way to Arras). He has some observations on the general, as might be expected.

Captain Dunn mentions the same incident, (War Infantry Knew) and echoes the details given by Richards (the general rifted the CO for some minor infringement of march discipline - brooms and other stuff being carried on the cooker carts).

Dunn dates the incident accurately to 4 April.

Sassoon mentions the incident too, in "Memoirs Infantry Officer" corroborating (and adding to) the details given by Richards and Dunn.

33rd Div were joining VI Corps, so it seems as certain as can be that the incident recorded by Richards is that mentioned by Sassoon in his poem.

Sassoon was wounded on the 16th, and he wrote the poem in Denmark Hill Hospital before the end of April.

The general in question would therefore have been Aylmer Haldane, GOC VI Corps. I think this is pretty conclusive, although none of the three accounts actually names him. Richards provides the key.

Who fingered Daddy Plumer ?

[Stoppage Drill]

Well, the indications are that "The General" was being pleasant to the men, but b*llocked the CO 2/RWF to whom he said (Sassoon and Dunn) "Are you glued to that bloody horse?" Perhaps the infantry general expected the CO to march with his men?

[daggers]

Pete

Thank you

D

[Fattyowls]

S-D; a fine bit of detective work, forensic is the word. What's more I'd not realised that Dunn and Richards served with Sassoon and Graves. I am interested in Sassoon and Graves partly because they were based at Litherland Camp, the site of which is about a mile away from Owls acres. Equally Sassoon threw his MC medal ribbon (but not medal as legend had it) into the sea at Formby where I like to walk on the beach. Until I found out the latter fact I used to look at every bit of round detritus when I was up there. I am now going to have to find out if Dunn and Richards would be based at Litherland; indeed at long last I'm going to have to read both of their books. It's remarkable to me that the RWC should produce four classic accounts.

Thanks again,

Pete.

P.S. I think I might have managed to spell Sassoon correctly in this post; a first.

[Stoppage Drill]

P.S. I think I might have managed to spell Sassoon correctly in this post; a first.

Well Dunn.

Incidentally,three posts have been deleted between my #18 and #19, which makes the content and juxtaposition a little odd as it now stands.

Not my posts - (well, one was) -

[Stoppage Drill]

. It's remarkable to me that the RWC should produce four classic accounts.

It's been said that 2 RWF was the most literary battalion in the army, and justifiably so. I think that Graves was instrumental in persuading Richards to write "Old Soldiers".

[Fattyowls]

Well Dunn.

S-D, I didn't see that one coming; it's what is called leading with your chin in boxing circles. A classic comedy moment to go with all the sagacious literary input, thanks matey.

[Stoppage Drill]

S-D, I didn't see that one coming;

Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition . . .