YOU CAN GET THE STAFF!

[David Filsell]

O K let’s get the price out of the way first £95. The Men who Planned the War: A Study of the Staff of the British Army on the Western Front, 1914-1918 on Amazon? I can only look upon it, weep, and question the competence of Ashgate Publishing’s marketing department. And, the real tragedy is that Paul Harris’s book, the first fully researched work on the subject of staff officers in the British Army during WW1 is a very important study of an aspect of key importance to study of the British Army in the Great War. It still triggers much misunderstanding and debate. But, tragically, stupidly, I fear he success of this book doomed by publishing stupidity. Ashgate simply do not know a good thing when they have it or the potential market for it.

In deploying the title The Missing Element to his introduction, Paul Harris, most aptly identifies the lack of research, and consequent lack of any real sensible awareness, of the role and work and life of staff officers. How persuasive is his research, analysis and writing in filling periodic table of the First World War’s missing element in the search for victory? The answer is very clear. He does so exceptionally, and at every level from brigade to GHQ, collectively and singly, with exceptional skill, and with a keen eye for telling detail in this cogent and well written work.

Of course there are a few personal narratives, and books by highly capable individuals (like Tim Harrington) which underline the efforts and abilities of staff officers. Mostly however their efforts have long gone unnoticed, unrecognised. Virtually every lazy, derivative, book on the Great War, and many of the better ones - personal accounts, battle narratives, even volumes of the OH - have drummed the ‘facts into us. The ‘chateau generals’ were aided and abetted by languorous ‘chateau’ staff officers whose primary objective, if they visited the front line at all, was serious infantry, artillery and engineering embuggerment duty. Well read on.

Harris presents the British Army faced, in essence, with massive management and control problems 1914 and 15 and living with the consequences in 1916. How did a small army, capable of putting just two Corps in the field in 1914, with an inadequate cadre of trained staff officers build a machine to prevent defeat and gain victory? How did it continue to perform even adequately in the field while absorbing additional regular divisions, Kitchener and territorial divisions? How, quite simply, did it find, train and deploy and direct competent untrained people to command and to control what was in effect became a huge and massively diverse corporate mechanism employing vast numbers of men, and uncountable material, plan movement, logistics, intelligence, defensive and also plan offensive actions to end what was, until then, the most challenging war in history. Harris shows that it was done with some difficulty, and slowly, but with huge success.

Important books like this, and others on many key aspects the Great War, are teaching us to “know different” about the war. Rigorous and carefully evaluated work by a crop of new military historians from university war studies departments is examining and re-evaluating realities, finding new answers. Here Paul Harris’ examines the role of the staff, recognises and evaluates their responsibilities, defines the agonising work load, the about of learning essential and the inevitable growth of competence of the British Army’s staff officers and their supplying, directing and commanding a war winning army and the length and breadth of their responsibilities.

Probably few, even amongst even the most dedicated of First World War students outside academia will be able to justify buying this book buy it at this price. (And good luck with that once great, now increasingly failing, institution, inter library loan!) The Men who Planned the War is an excellent book from a publisher in need of good staff officers. Personally I’d ‘degum’ their GSO1 and sell more books.

[Bernard_Lewis]

£95? :0(

Bernard

[squirrel]

£160 + on Abebooks.....

[paulgranger]

Ashgate's prices do seem intended to keep out the majority of interested parties, Only universities and the like would shell out £95 for these books. The rest of us will say, 'oh, shame , I'd like to have read that', and then have a look at Helion's website to see what they might be offering. You'd think that Ashgate's authors might be saying,' hang on, that's a bit steep', but they are, mostly, academics themselves, and may be basking in the aura of how much their book is worth, rather than reflecting on how few people are willing to buy it.

[Bernard_Lewis]

Perhaps they think that like the Ritz, their books are accessible to everyone?

Inter library loan is one option, I suppose?

Bernard

[David Filsell]

Team,

The author is as hacked off as anyone else. I called the company's marketing director - not in, voice mail, no call back. Is the book worth it? Of. course not. It's the arrogance and stupidity of the, "We're academic publishers" classes. Is it the book important. Yes I think it is. I've learned a lot. So try, just try, inter library loan, and then visit the copy shop, just for a packet of printer paper.

Hellion are getting the pricing right with their Wolverhampton series edited by Stephen Badsey, their prices are sane.

How difficult is it to the print run right, get the pricing right and get the marketing and publicity right.? I actually I'm know, I did book marketing for a while. It's not even penny banger science. Most academic publishers are simply clueless In spades. Effectively it's vanity publishing in an academic gown.

[Loader]

Inter Library Loan is a godsend for collectors & researchers. Have been able to read books I never dreamed or hoped of seeing. Fees vary but for what one gets usually well worth it. In the system there is one drawback, most libraries in the program will NOT loan a book that is under a year old so new published books are not doable. Also some books will not be loaned out even if libraries have them for various reaons. My most frustrating one was some yrs back there was a Bn history I wanted & only 1 library had it. They would not lend it on the ILL for the reason they gave my library: It has never been checked out since it was added to the inventory in 1925 so it can't be loaned out!! My local ILL librarian said she had never heard that one & tried to pursue it & get it approved but hit a brick wall so that was that! But by and large a valuable resource.

[Staffsyeoman]

Agreed... if only Helion had published it... It's not as if Paul is going to benefit from better royalties from Ashgate.

I have been keeping an eye on "Battalion Commanders" as well - £65 for an e-book is borderline criminal..

[joerookery]

I fear he success of this book doomed by publishing stupidity. Ashgate simply do not know a good thing when they have it or the potential market for it.

You'd think that Ashgate's authors might be saying,' hang on, that's a bit steep', but they are, mostly, academics themselves, and may be basking in the aura of how much their book is worth, rather than reflecting on how few people are willing to buy it.

I feel like I have always operated under a dark cloud when it comes to publishing. We are writing another book and will absolutely not do business with our past publishers. Marketing is beyond them. Setting the price point seems to be done without consulting the authors. And communication crosses over the line from rudeness to blatant stupidity. Honoring contracts seems optional. I have to find a better way!

[stiletto_33853]

OK, birthday last week with quite a few book vouchers given hence decided to purchase this against my better judgement because of the pricing. Is it an important work?? I sincerely hope so but having gone over David's review I am confident it is and will assist my understanding somewhat.

Not at all happy regarding the pricing, I do feel for the author with Ashgates ludicrous pricing. Would not have purchased this without all the birthday goodies.

£89.99 with free p & p

Andy

[Gareth Davies]

His PhD is available online for free.

[Muerrisch]

BINGO! Have a look at

https://kclpure.kcl.ac.uk/portal/files/37447733/2014_Harris_Paul_0647534_ethesis.pdf

and keep the hard-earned trousered!

Thank you Gareth.

[Gareth Davies]

Ashgate's prices do seem intended to keep out the majority of interested parties, Only universities and the like would shell out £95 for these books. The rest of us will say, 'oh, shame , I'd like to have read that', and then have a look at Helion's website to see what they might be offering. You'd think that Ashgate's authors might be saying,' hang on, that's a bit steep', but they are, mostly, academics themselves, and may be basking in the aura of how much their book is worth, rather than reflecting on how few people are willing to buy it.

Team,

The author is as hacked off as anyone else. I called the company's marketing director - not in, voice mail, no call back. Is the book worth it? Of. course not. It's the arrogance and stupidity of the, "We're academic publishers" classes. Is it the book important. Yes I think it is. I've learned a lot. So try, just try, inter library loan, and then visit the copy shop, just for a packet of printer paper.

Hellion are getting the pricing right with their Wolverhampton series edited by Stephen Badsey, their prices are sane.

How difficult is it to the print run right, get the pricing right and get the marketing and publicity right.? I actually I'm know, I did book marketing for a while. It's not even penny banger science. Most academic publishers are simply clueless In spades. Effectively it's vanity publishing in an academic gown.

Agreed... if only Helion had published it... It's not as if Paul is going to benefit from better royalties from Ashgate.

I have been keeping an eye on "Battalion Commanders" as well - £65 for an e-book is borderline criminal..

I am meeting with Helion this afternoon (along with Delta) and will pass on your positive comments to them.

[Chris_Baker]

The high pricing of many academic works on the subject is one factor in the failure to overcome the popular lions-led-by-donkeys-they-were-all-heroes-Haig-should-be-hung viewpoint. This publisher is not the only guilty party in this regard.

[Steven Broomfield]

I am meeting with Helion this afternoon (along with Delta) and will pass on your positive comments to them.

As mentioned, I have just reviewed a fairly esoteric title on the 16th lancers in India in the 1820 - 1845 period. It is of little interest to most, but it is well-produced, has excellent illustrations, more than adequate maps and weighs in at less than £30. And it's a jolly good book too.

[paulgranger]

Gareth

By all means quote me to Helion, I have in the past let them know directly how impressed I am with their products. Now, if you can persuade them to acquire the publishing rights to those interesting volumes at Ashgate, Cambridge, Palgrave MacMillan etc, etc.........

[Steven Broomfield]

... Mrs Granger would never forgive you. (Nor would Mrs Broomfield, to be fair).

[Guest]

Here is how Ashgate will be broken:

X people each buy an Ashgate book for £70 (average)

They get circulated every month

After X months they end up with the original purchaser

It reduces costs

Everyone gets to read X books for the cost of one book plus postage times X. Given Postage/Cost of book is about £3... you can do the maths.... access to X books would cost (£70 + £3 * X)/X - leverage is manifold and reduces costs.

If X = 10 average cost of access to 10 Ashgate books = (£70 + £3 * 10)/10 = £100/10 = £10 .... i.e one seventh of the cost of a single book

If X = 20 average cost of access to 20 Ashgate books = (£70 + £3 * 20)/20 = £150/20 = £6.5....i.e. one tenth (nearly) of the cost of a single book.

This will happen in the internet age unless Ashgate pull their finger out.

Max Hasting's utterly dreadful book 'Catastrophe 1914' has 444 reviews on Amazon (cost £3.85) so at least £1,705 of verified sales.

Hodgkinson's book has sold one on Amazon. Verifiable sales of £70

Difference is 24-fold

[Steven Broomfield]

I woz robbed. I bought Sir Max's book for a tenner. I persevered - got as far as page 25.

I agree with you about how to break Ashgate, though.

[nigelcave]

I find this pricing policy puzzling. I have in front of me Narrow Gauge in the Arras Sector, part of a series entitled Allied Railways of the Western Front, published by Pen & Sword Transport in 2015. It is a well bound hardback, printed on glossy art paper and is 274 pages long, each twelve inches by eight and a half. It is profusely illustrated - ie a minimum of a hundred and fifty photographs, probably more; and must have about fifty decent sized maps and lots of diagrams. It is a thing of beauty. It costs £30.

Now I am sure there are many people out there interested in narrow gauge railways and railways in general in the Great War, but I do not think they are likely to be as many as would purchase some of these ridiculously priced Ashgate titles. Take a case in point. Ashgate's Roger Lee's British Battle Planning in 1916 and the Battle of Fromelles - A Case Study of an Evolving Skill costs something like £75. A book of this length if published by P&S would be priced, given its length, probably and from my experience as an occasional commissioning editor for P&S (interest declared!), at £19.95 or possibly £25. This is a book that requires very little setting - there are only five photographs, which have reproduced very badly given the likely quality of the originals; and thirteen maps, which are fine. On the positive side the paper is high quality, as is the binding. It also happens to be extremely well written. which is not always the case for a modified PhD thesis. I doubt if they had to pay anyone other than a copy editor and the setter for its production.

You could perhaps understand this if the subject matter was incredibly obscure. But it is not - Fromelles has been in the media for a decade or so now. It is a highly controversial battle. The author is the head of the Australian Army History Unit. It is a fascinating study in battle planning by the British and has some controversial conclusions, particlarly from the perspective of the long accepted 'Australian' view of the battle. OK, maybe a limited audience, but you would easily print a thousand copies of this and if it were as successful as I think it would likely be at this price, the paperback would be out and should cost £14.95. My question is this: why do authors go to Ashgate?

Well, they are 'academic' publishers - like Praeger of old. They have 'prestige'. Possibly it looks better on an academic cv? But I do not think that other, more established 'academic' presses, particularly the university ones - Harvard, Yale, OUP, CUP, MUP etc etc - would price such a book at anything like this price - £40 maybe. One of their books that sells well comes out in paperback in due course - admittedly a pricey paperback in the great scheme o things; but has anyone seen an Ashgate paperback? If you go back to (my eyes) some of their interesting titles that came out a few years ago - for example there is one on French trench fighting methods - the only way to get it is as a very expensive second hand item now that the print run has been exhausted.

It seems to defy logic.

[Gareth Davies]

As mentioned, I have just reviewed a fairly esoteric title on the 16th lancers in India in the 1820 - 1845 period. It is of little interest to most, but it is well-produced, has excellent illustrations, more than adequate maps and weighs in at less than £30. And it's a jolly good book too.

Gareth

By all means quote me to Helion, I have in the past let them know directly how impressed I am with their products. Now, if you can persuade them to acquire the publishing rights to those interesting volumes at Ashgate, Cambridge, Palgrave MacMillan etc, etc.........

Messages passed and gratefully received by Helion.

[David Filsell]

There is no logic in academic publishing - just academic ego, pathetic costing, appalling marketing and publicity, limited print runs (thus high costs) - oh yes and then ego. There are exceptions but the real answer is that Wolverhampton University got it right in choosing their publisher - so if you've got a good text - incorporating sound research, relatively limited sales expectation go speak to Helion. They do it properly.

[keithmroberts]

A quick search shows that Ashgate changed hands not so long ago for £20m so clearly the purchaser thought their approach to publishing worthwhile. It seems odd; they obviously have their own approach to distribution etc., but given that they are part of a larger publishing empire they would surely have access to distribution approaches that could handle larger print runs. I have been attracted by reviews of a couple of other titles that they have released, but realistically will never be willing pay their prices. They must be a company with limited ambition.

Keith

[nigelcave]

The titles may be a little on the esoteric side, but they all provide useful qualifying insights into the war and its conduct.

Apart from the Fromelles book and David's review that started this thread, they have also published in recent years:

Early Trench Tactics in the French Army - The Second Battle of Artois May-June 1915;

British Infantry Battalion Commanders in the First World War, already 'reviewed' on this forum;

Doctrine and Reform in the British Cavalry 1880 - 1918 (by Stephen Badsey, who certainly knows his stuff about cavalry);

British Generalship during the Great War - The Military Career of Sir Henry Horne (Simon Robbins)

British Artillery on the Western Front in the First World War - 'The Infantry cannot do with a gun less'. (Sanders Marble, a well established artillery expert);

Before my Helpless Sight: Suffering, Dying and Military Medicine on the Western Front 1914 -1918

... and so it goes on. Great research work unavailable, in effect, to many of those with a deeper then most interest in the war - but I am sure that at a proper price a thousand plus copies of these would have sold without any great problem.

Sad.

[David Filsell]

I agree the titles are good - almost as good as those in the Wolverhampton Series. That's the reason I campaign against stupid pricing. The question of ambition is interesting - clearly no publisher in his right mind publishes at prices 'not to sell'. Or do they? Are they simply feeding the (frequent) snobbery of knowledge and sources within academia or simply pathetic at marketing and building market knowledge?.

Whatever - and although now effectively retired from journalism, media relations and marketing, I'd really love to get amongst them and show them how to market a specialist book. Any offers Ashgate? Ask yourselves, are your people marketing the books even reading the Great War Forum, Stand To or any other specialist media and targeting it by locating those like me who can offer them sales opportunities? Evidence suggests not. All most stupidly strange.