mancpal Posted 19 February , 2016 Share Posted 19 February , 2016 I'm currently half way through this book and enjoying the first hand experiences of Charlie May. Whilst Mays experiences were doubtless repeated in numerous other regiments one of my main interests is the 22nd Mcrs with whom my grandfather fought. I would however like to point out one rather small error. When May refers to the various football matches between platoons and battalions a footnote describes one of the "stars" as being Joseph Lamb who played for Newton Heath (later to become Manchester United). There were however 2 separate Newton Heath teams and having checked with Man Utds historian (over 20 yrs ago) I can say for certain he did not play for the one which became Utd. He may have played for the other one though I found nothing to support this either. At the time Michael Stedman was writing his book " The Manchester Pals" we met in a pub in Salford as I had some information which Michael wished to include in his book. I mentioned that I had written to United to see if, as family rumour had it, Joe Lamb had indeed played for them and I think this may be where the confusion arose. I must say this has not ruined Charlie Mays diaries at all and I am in fact quite delighted that Joe Lamb did not play for Utd, after all as a lifelong Manchester City supporter how could I ever live it down that my grandfather played for the "rags"? If you have any interest in the 22nd Manchesters I would recommend both this book and "The Manchester Pals". Up the blues, Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hartley Posted 19 February , 2016 Share Posted 19 February , 2016 Big relief for you. Simon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mancpal Posted 19 February , 2016 Author Share Posted 19 February , 2016 It would have been bad enough if they were still winning stuff but now that they've reduced themselves to failed second tier euro giant killers I wouldn't have known where to put my face! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 20 February , 2016 Share Posted 20 February , 2016 Wow! I thought for a minute there that I'd accidentally logged on to the 'Blue Goon' (sorry... 'Blue Moon') forum.... almost as many Bitters on this thread as can be found in the Emptyhad Stadium on a match day!!! Anyway (to keep this slightly on topic), I'm intrigued about this 'other' Newton Heath team as my own Gt.Grandad (Boer War veteran and just 3 months service in WW1) turned out for Newton Heath FC (or Newton Heath LYRFC (which is just a slightly earlier incarnation of the same club anyway)) on a few occasions in the years before the Boer War and I always believed it to be the one that turned into Manchester United. There is no record in the MUFC archives of his ever having played for them either, but this is not an uncommon occurrence with amateur players of that period. I've never come across this 'other' Newton Heath team... can you give me any details, please? Thanks. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Maria Posted 20 February , 2016 Share Posted 20 February , 2016 Excellent read and really quite a moving book and I also like the way Charlie's fellow officer's diaries are used in the footnotes to tie in and sometimes give extra information to events that Charlie mentions in his diary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghazala Posted 20 February , 2016 Share Posted 20 February , 2016 I sat at Charlie May's grave at Danzig Cemetery last September. With his book on audible, I played his wife, Bessie's, last letter to him, which he never got to read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mancpal Posted 20 February , 2016 Author Share Posted 20 February , 2016 Newton Heath Lancashire and Yorkshire Railway as I understand it were the team which became Man Utd , Newton Heath Loco were a separate team from the motive power department of the same firm. I'm sure there would have been many other works teams in the district also so perhaps our forebears played IN Newton Heath rather than for them. I can furnish you with the details of the historian at MCFC in case your GGF once played for a proper club! Joe Lamb was aged 18 at the outbreak of the war so any previous football career would have been a short one and sadly he lost his leg at Broodseinde in 1917 (though I'm staggered MUFC didn't sign him post '17 as they've certainly signed worse of late). Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mancpal Posted 20 February , 2016 Author Share Posted 20 February , 2016 blackmaria, Everything you say of the book is true especially the use of the various other accounts. I was aware that Alfred Bland was a prolific letter writer but didn't know that Gomersall was to, their inclusion adds a great deal of depth to an already detailed picture. Ghazala I too have visited Danzig Alley cemetery on a few occasions and noted that Alfred Bland is buried very close to May, perhaps they still take the occasional ride out together. Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8055Bell Posted 20 February , 2016 Share Posted 20 February , 2016 Hi Simon, I'm also reading Charlie May's Diaries at the moment and agree that the footnotes help build a really vivid picture. Gerry Harrison edited the publication and presumably researched the reference to Joseph Lamb's military and football career. GerryH is a moderator on the Manchesters forum and I imagine he will be delighted to share his sources. Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mancpal Posted 20 February , 2016 Author Share Posted 20 February , 2016 Tim I'm a member of the Mcrs forum so will contact Gerry at some point . Joe Lamb was known to be a keen sportsman and I believe enjoyed cricket as well as football but a keen sportsman doesn't always equate to a good sportsman . He is also mentioned in Paul Kendals excellent book on Bullecourt Thanks Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 20 February , 2016 Share Posted 20 February , 2016 Newton Heath Lancashire and Yorkshire Railway as I understand it were the team which became Man Utd , Newton Heath Loco were a separate team from the motive power department of the same firm. I'm sure there would have been many other works teams in the district also so perhaps our forebears played IN Newton Heath rather than for them. I can furnish you with the details of the historian at MCFC in case your GGF once played for a proper club! Joe Lamb was aged 18 at the outbreak of the war so any previous football career would have been a short one and sadly he lost his leg at Broodseinde in 1917 (though I'm staggered MUFC didn't sign him post '17 as they've certainly signed worse of late). Simon Thanks Simon. I didn't know about Newton Heath Loco, but I suppose with such a big company, it would make sense that there was more than one team (and something in the back of my mind tells me that Newton Heath LYR actually started out in inter-departmental competitions). My Gt.Grandad played for Newton Heath FC circa 1897/98 (then a military career wrecked his footballing one.... mind you, the pay was probably better!), so was actually slightly beyond the 'firm team' part of it's history. Thanks for the offer of the details of the MCFC historian, but its almost certain that he had no links there (mind you, if he had, there's no way he'd have ever admitted it (even though his son and granddaughter (my granddad and mum) were both City supporters...but I think they only did that to be awkward as the rest of the family were all reds!) and I'd have never known that he had ever even kicked a football! ) so there's no need. Cheers. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mancpal Posted 20 February , 2016 Author Share Posted 20 February , 2016 Dave This year would be my grandfathers 120th birthday and despite losing his leg 99yrs ago I think he'd probably still get a chance in Louis Van Moyse first Eleven! The family legend of Joe Lamb playing for Newton Heath (Utd) makes even less sense when one considers that he never worked for the railway, in fact pre-war he was a stoker at Stuart St power station whilst his dad worked underground at Bradford Colliery (underneath Citys current car park). Its just possible that my GGF foresaw the collapse of Man Ure and started undermining Citys empire before it was even conceived! Back on topic, read a few more days of Charlie Mays diary this afternoon and am finding it fascinating as it is confirming places and dates where I believed my Grandfather served and is adding human detail to black and white dates/statistics that I previously uncovered. Dave, back to the modern world, good luck against Shrewsbury, I think you may need it. Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marilyne Posted 10 March , 2016 Share Posted 10 March , 2016 Thanks for the reviews... I found this book at Waterstones last week (YES, we have Waterstones in Brussels... a very dangerous place for me to be, I know ... ) and it's on my list for AFTER the Verdun books still on the pile. OK, pretty soon, hopefully!! M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghazala Posted 13 March , 2016 Share Posted 13 March , 2016 Well done Marilyne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Scorer Posted 22 March , 2016 Share Posted 22 March , 2016 Prompted by this thread, I recently borrowed this from Newport library and have now finished it. What a good book - full of information and vivid descriptions of what it must have been like on the front line and everywhere else. I agree with blackmaria's comments about the other diaries in post 5 above; they do add quite a lot to Charlie May's story. I'll be visiting Dantzig Alley Cemetery in July, so I'll visit Charlie May and Alfred Bland whilst I'm there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 22 March , 2016 Share Posted 22 March , 2016 What surprised me was that there were three good descriptive writers in the battalion and the chance that all three accounts have survived. Would that this were so for other Bns. A very informative account. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8055Bell Posted 22 March , 2016 Share Posted 22 March , 2016 Informative account on the Regimental Museum site http://www.themenbehindthemedals.org.uk/index.asp?page=full&mwsquery=%28{Person%20identity}={May,%20CC}%29 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8055Bell Posted 22 March , 2016 Share Posted 22 March , 2016 Also see an unexpected grave photo at 4.39. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16gf0sMLTo0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghazala Posted 23 March , 2016 Share Posted 23 March , 2016 (YES, we have Waterstones in Brussels... a very dangerous place for me to be, I know ... ) M. So good to hear you are safe and well Marilyne. Stay safe. Eddie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Ridgus Posted 6 April , 2016 Share Posted 6 April , 2016 A terrific book. Ever since I first read his last letter home in an Imperial War Museum book alongside the haunting sepia picture of him, I had hoped someone would publish more of his writing. Congratulations to all involved David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 22 May , 2016 Share Posted 22 May , 2016 And just an odd bit of trivia, not in the Charlie May diaries. He is remembered also on the headstone of the family grave in the churchyard of St.Mary,s, Wanstead-in the east of London. It has the grave of his mother and some Worlidge relations (see book), a listing for his father (d.Glasgow,1940) and Charles May himself. Despite the publication of the diaries, the grave remains overgrown but easily found- it is close to a memorial to the members of the Wanstead Cricket Club, mounted on the wall of the churchyard at the nearest point to the cricket pitch-the club is next door. Although Charlie May died with 22nd Manchesters and his Probate address was in Withington, the family base for the war was in Wanstead-his wife was local and May had first settled there when he came over from New Zealand - I notice many otherwise "alien" memorials in the area to those who had little obvious connection-but of course,during the war, leave was so precious that there was no point slogging up to Manchester ( Canadians and Australians with no apparent link are also commemorated-as they stayed with relatives in the area while the C.E.F or AIF were in Europe. I suspect Charlie May will figure in media coverage on 1st July - he has been featured before. A very slight worry is that he may have been killed by a British shell........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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