Cockney Posted 21 May , 2016 Share Posted 21 May , 2016 Just received these two volumes on the Scots Guards 1914-19 - they look very impressive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 9 August , 2016 Share Posted 9 August , 2016 I would be very interested if anyone has reviewed these volumes. ...and specifically how these differ from the published history of the Scots Guards and their war diaries. Martin G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Filsell Posted 10 August , 2016 Share Posted 10 August , 2016 Working on my review - but these volumes are each over 500 words. Now halfway through vol. 1 now. Initially, as As Bob Wyatt, review Editor of Stand To! has pointed out to me. " The preparation of the history of the Scots Guards in the Great War has an unfortunate history. Wilfred Ewart, who served with the regiment in France from February 1915, was accidentally and shot in Mexico City during Year’s Day 1923 celebrations having completed the copy for the first two months of the war." (Fortunately, he had already written his memoirs, Scots Guard, which had been published in 1934 and is still available from Amazon and a great war novel Way of Revelation which was highly regarded by Henry Williamson) "Authors suitable, and available, to write a regimental history were rare in the post war rush to publish regimental volumes and the regimental committee managed to appoint the 77 year old prolific military writer F. Loraine Petre. Sadly, he died in July 1925 and the volume was completed by Major General H. Cecil Lowther an officer who had seen action in France, who put together a fairly short history. It has been judged poorest of the Guards Regiments histories - lacking in detail." As an initial view these are mighty impressive and deeply researched volumes and the tale most comprehensively told . They employ Scots guards' archives - and many others - as well as correspondence (mainly those written by officers as well as some - semi literate in a number of cases - men. They also include POWs experiences . The approach is truly day by day, and the story of the 1st and 2nd battalions Is told well and highly readably ( with reference to other bns) on tedious days as well and in action with superb detail. Whilst not a 'sociological' work, it places the men offices and men in context, tells of the background of many officers and men killed wounded and captured. Not least the account of actions at Ypres in 1914 are comprehensive - not easy task as I know. The account of the Christmas Truce is fascinating, fresh and detailed: many anecdotes recorded too. A well as a bibliog. notes and refs, separate indices are provided for names, places and military terminology. This is not a top down work detailing staff objectives - although they are mentioned, - it is the story of events seen and recorded at the time and their effects on the battalion. It is therefore not a traditional regimental history which breaks different ground to those. Ils. are many and maps (coloured) adequate - although I would have preferred more of them and more detail. I hope to read all before reviewing fully - but time may preclude. However I see no reason why the standard will fall throughout the book. Thus far, it appears to me best and most exhaustive work of its type I have read - and reasonably priced, well produced (Helion of cours are the publishers). This is a valuable work - both to read and for future reference Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulgranger Posted 10 August , 2016 Share Posted 10 August , 2016 It sounds a bit like 'The War The Infantry Knew' , and no bad thing if it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Filsell Posted 10 August , 2016 Share Posted 10 August , 2016 Paul. I clearly share your view on Dunn's book - and to a point I suppose there are similarities now that you mention it although It had not occurred to me until you mentioned it. Nevertheless length, breadth and depth is greater and I think the author has tracked down more contemporary material David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 10 August , 2016 Share Posted 10 August , 2016 Thanks for the insight. There is a also a very positive review on Amazon's website. I have just purchased Vol I Helion seems to be shorthand for 'Essential Reading'. My only gripe is that there is not a Kindle edition. Martin G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoEssGee Posted 11 August , 2016 Share Posted 11 August , 2016 Just received my copies of the two Volumes a few days ago and getting towards the end of Volume I. Well researched, well written, and a very comprehensive and detailed history of the Scots Guards in WW1. The author, Randall Nicol, has done a fantastic job and has produced a Regimental history that Scots Guardsmen and those with an interest in the Regiment have been waiting on for a very long time (about 100 years, in fact). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 12 August , 2016 Share Posted 12 August , 2016 (edited) Vol I arrived today. A breathtaking volume. Huzzah. I suspect this will be heading straight to the top of my 'best reads' if the first 50 pages are any indication. Volume II ordered. I am attempting to read it in parallel with "The Scots Guards in the Great War 1914-1918" by Petre, Ewart and Lowther to get a feel of just how much more informaton the author has managed to pack into this history. Edit: Some Regiments still do not have their definitive Great War history committed to paper. While the Scots Guards had to wait nearly 100 years, it was probably worth it. Given so many unit histories were poorly written and many do not exist I think this illustrates an opportunity to fill some gaps. My weekend is completely sorted. Martin G Edit 2: This is an exceptional book. A very STRONG BUY. Edited 12 August , 2016 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Filsell Posted 12 August , 2016 Share Posted 12 August , 2016 Martin, The book gets more impressive as it proceeds and the quirky asides about tattoos, wives and etc more endearing and touching. The slow daily toll in the trenches is also well made. The comment on this thread from Paul was right in his reference to Dunn's great RWF book. There are similarities of style and purpose. Equally you are right about the poor quality of many regimental histories. Not least that of the Gordon's despite the fact that the author was otherwise well regarded as writer of earlier such works. My test is the quality of writing about 1st Ypres. If the authors can sort out the muddle after 29 th October and present a sound narrative he'd a better man than I am Gung Din. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 12 August , 2016 Share Posted 12 August , 2016 5 minutes ago, David Filsell said: Martin, The book gets more impressive as it proceeds and the quirky asides about tattoos, wives and etc more endearing and touching. The slow daily toll in the trenches is also well made. The comment on this thread from Paul was right in his reference to Dunn's great RWF book. There are similarities of style and purpose. Equally you are right about the poor quality of many regimental histories. Not least that of the Gordon's despite the fact that the author was otherwise well regarded as writer of earlier such works. My test is the quality of writing about 1st Ypres. If the authors can sort out the muddle after 29 th October and present a sound narrative he'd a better man than I am Gung Din. David I own nearly every infantry regimental* history for the Great War and I would say with some confidence that nothing comes close to this book in the level of detail. It is a tour de force and surpasses anything I have read before with the possible exception of Stacke ..... The irony here is that the author has probably managed to gather together more personal narratives to supplement the core history than the regimental authors of the 1920s and 1930s who probably had greater access to (then living) participants. Martin G * Regimental rather than Battalion. There are some exceptional battalion histories written in modern times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Broomfield Posted 12 August , 2016 Share Posted 12 August , 2016 1 hour ago, QGE said: surpasses anything I have read before with the possible exception of Stacke ..... And one might hope it won't fall apart so easily! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 12 August , 2016 Share Posted 12 August , 2016 3 hours ago, Steven Broomfield said: And one might hope it won't fall apart so easily! Indeed. I have an original copy of Stacke's tome, now in loose-leaf form. I note the Naval and Military Plagiarists' copy (which I also own) is in two volumes which attempts to avoid the same fate. Unsuccessfully. In hard back. And the photo reproductions are terrible. MG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Broomfield Posted 13 August , 2016 Share Posted 13 August , 2016 7 hours ago, QGE said: And the photo reproductions are terrible. MG Constant problem (and the reproduction of maps). I have just bought a copy of their reprint f the WW2 history of the Guides and the photos might as well not be there for all the good they are. I assume it's a by-product of the reproduction process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Filsell Posted 13 August , 2016 Share Posted 13 August , 2016 (edited) Actually it must be admitted than many of the ills. In Nichol are not great - but that's not because of the reproduction but that they are mainly shots taken on Kodak or similar pocket cameras. Helion quality is always good,so I cannot see the books falling apart and as Martin indicates a little surprise or insight on practically every page. Still reading on. Edited 25 February , 2017 by David Filsell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulgranger Posted 15 August , 2016 Share Posted 15 August , 2016 (edited) On 12/08/2016 at 17:46, QGE said: Equally you are right about the poor quality of many regimental histories. Not least that of the Gordon's despite the fact that the author was otherwise well regarded as writer of earlier such works. Above quote is from David within a post by Martin, just to be clear. The only Gordons history I can find is by Cyril Falls. I wouldn't have thought he'd do a bad job? Edited 15 August , 2016 by paulgranger Clarification Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Filsell Posted 15 August , 2016 Share Posted 15 August , 2016 Paul, Hard to believe of Falls I know, but I think it extremely poor. It did not sell well either. Some 15 years ago I was able to buy a brand new copy from the Regimental museum. Away from home, cannot check, but I believe it was one of, if not, the last of his books to be published and does not appear on many of his bibliographies. His account of the Gordon's at First Ypres, is both weak and far too brief. As a research tool it is far from invaluable (in my humble .....) David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulgranger Posted 15 August , 2016 Share Posted 15 August , 2016 David Thanks for the reply. Even the mighty must fall, it seems. I shall save my pocket money, what's left of it.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Filsell Posted 19 August , 2016 Share Posted 19 August , 2016 Returning briefly to The Cyril Falls history of the Gordons in Gordon Highlanders History in the Great War (vol 4 of the regiment's history - the first three were by Lt.-Col. C Greenhill): Gardyne. Falls version was published in 1958 when Falls was 70. A quick look at my copy confirms my view that, very sadly, it is a very lightweight - almost 'jobbing' - piece of work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulgranger Posted 19 August , 2016 Share Posted 19 August , 2016 I shall just have to be satisfied with 'Till the Trumpet...', which has arrived, both volumes, and very good it looks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 19 August , 2016 Share Posted 19 August , 2016 Ordered mine too. But what an extraordinary title for an infantry regiment! Does the author explain? Bugle maybe. Or pipes? But a cavalry/ RA trumpet? Whatever next? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kath Posted 19 August , 2016 Share Posted 19 August , 2016 1 Corinthians 15:52 Kath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Broomfield Posted 19 August , 2016 Share Posted 19 August , 2016 Nearly 4 o'clock? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seaJane Posted 19 August , 2016 Share Posted 19 August , 2016 " In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. " Earlier in the same chapter is a passage which forms the core of Kipling's short story "A Madonna of the Trenches" - "If after the manner of men I have fought with beasts at Ephesus, what advantageth it me, if the dead rise not?" - and also the one that gave Richard Hillary his title: "The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death." King James Bible; the only book successfully written by a committee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 19 August , 2016 Share Posted 19 August , 2016 Thank you people, yes, I am a King James man myself. Perhaps there are no bugles in the bible [or indeed bagpipes .................!] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoEssGee Posted 21 August , 2016 Share Posted 21 August , 2016 On 19/08/2016 at 16:14, Muerrisch said: Ordered mine too. But what an extraordinary title for an infantry regiment! Does the author explain? Bugle maybe. Or pipes? But a cavalry/ RA trumpet? Whatever next? The Epitaph makes it clear where the title of the book comes from. I won't spoil it by repeating it here. Just finished reading both volumes, and what a wonderful job Randall Nicol has made of telling the story of the Scots Guardsmen who served in the Great War. The bulk of the story is told by the men themselves, in their diaries, their letters and papers. I have read some of the material before, such as the letters written by Sir Edward Hulse to his mother in 1914 and early 1915, and also it was great to see the stories of Cpl John Torrie included. I remember reading many of his stories when perusing some old Scots Guards Magazines, where they were published in the 1960's and thinking that they would make a great book! Most of the material is previously unpublished and held privately, and Mr Nicol is to be congratulated in collecting it all together and presenting it in such a readable fashion. One thing that really struck me and something which I had never really considered before, was the number of times men were wounded, evacuated, treated and returned. By the end of the war there were men being wounded for their fourth and fifth time and still returning to the Battalions, many having had serious wounds. The sheer amount of research that must have been required is quite staggering. A great read and worth every penny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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