Steve1871 Posted 27 December , 2023 Share Posted 27 December , 2023 Thanks T.Ryan for the tip there. Could not figure what that 3rd character was. I like it very much. Happy hunting yourself😊 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve1871 Posted 27 December , 2023 Share Posted 27 December , 2023 Hey Kippah Your first post, welcome to the forum, you started in a great way. These Siamese bayonets seem very popular right now. Love the photo with both rifles. I love those early Enfield Mk 1’s, They were even used in a few battles at beginning of the Great War. I hope you might do a few more post on your rifles to show more detail. You may be amazed at how much these forum members can tell from markings alone Again, thanks for the post, Take care Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kippah Posted 27 December , 2023 Share Posted 27 December , 2023 Thanks Steve for the warm welcome, have a few enfields, need a metford next Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve1871 Posted 27 December , 2023 Share Posted 27 December , 2023 Kippah, you have plenty in the a Great War range to start a series of post for us to admire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t.ryan Posted 27 December , 2023 Share Posted 27 December , 2023 Hi Kippah. Welcome to the forum. Bayonet # 6339. It is already on JMBs smiling tiger list Bolt # 3383. Rifle # 3681. You have a nice collection of Enfield rifles there but as you will see if you go back and start at page #1 of the smiling tiger post, JMB started this post in an effort to see how many smiling tiger bayonets only; are still in existence. You would be best to start new posts under new headings on your other rifles if you wish to do so, as I am sure many on the forum would be interested in what you have. Cheers, TR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMB1943 Posted 27 December , 2023 Author Share Posted 27 December , 2023 Kippah, Welcome to the GWF and also the Smiling Tiger safari. You have an enviable collection of Enfields, that will surely generate a lot of interest. As Mr. TR says, please start a new thread to discuss your rifles . Meanwhile, keep your eyes open and enjoy the chase for the big cats! Regards, JMB . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kippah Posted 29 December , 2023 Share Posted 29 December , 2023 Thank you JMB, you have done a great job in documenting the Wild Tiger bayonets,can you tell me how many you have listed so far?? Do you feel that number may also give a ball park number of rifles that have survived??and are you documenting all 1907 bayonets as I have 3.sorry for posting photos of rifles.only new to the forums cheers Kippa h Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navydoc16 Posted 29 December , 2023 Share Posted 29 December , 2023 On 14/12/2023 at 22:32, JMB1943 said: TR——thanks for that new serial! Steve——congratulations on your latest pickup! Will you wrap it up and then unwrap on Christmas morning? Waiting now for Phil B to announce his latest tiger catch…… Regards, JMB EDIT: Quick count indicates just shy of 280. Have you messaged the "Lee Enfield Rifle Association of Australia" ? Its a FB group over here, there are lots of smiling tiger rifles and bayonets on that page and in Australia, a quick post will reveal many, but I will message some friends and should be able to get 20 or so to add to your data. Some folks even have original matching leather scabbards, although they have gone for a pretty penny online. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMB1943 Posted 29 December , 2023 Author Share Posted 29 December , 2023 5 hours ago, Kippah said: Thank you JMB, you have done a great job in documenting the Wild Tiger bayonets,can you tell me how many you have listed so far?? Do you feel that number may also give a ball park number of rifles that have survived??and are you documenting all 1907 bayonets as I have 3.sorry for posting photos of rifles.only new to the forums cheers Kippa h Hello Kippah, 1) I think that we are at about the 280 mark now; I’ll post the latest Table soon. 2) It’s funny that you should ask that, because I posted the very same question on the Gunboards forum in the Lee-Enfield subsection the week before Christmas. The only two takers (both in Oz) estimated 2500 and 3000-5000, respectively. I initially thought that they were very high numbers, versus the bayonet, but rifles have much more use. The new serials are coming in so slowly now, that I would be very long-lived to see even 325. 3) No, I am not!! There are possibly 250,000 of those still floating around………..but none are serially marked. You have a very nice-looking collection of rifles, and if you want a chapter & verse read-out of the markings, there are several members, notably @4thGordons, who would love to see them! Regards, JMB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMB1943 Posted 29 December , 2023 Author Share Posted 29 December , 2023 (edited) On 29/12/2023 at 09:57, navydoc16 said: Have you messaged the "Lee Enfield Rifle Association of Australia" ? Its a FB group over here, there are lots of smiling tiger rifles and bayonets on that page and in Australia, a quick post will reveal many, but I will message some friends and should be able to get 20 or so to add to your data. Some folks even have original matching leather scabbards, although they have gone for a pretty penny online. Navydoc16, We do have a couple of members @t.ryan and @Phil B in Oz who are aware of that group, and we have had many serials from that source. If you can stir up some more there, so much the better! Feel free to keep a lookout wherever for those big cats….. Regards, JMB Edited 1 January by JMB1943 Add info Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navydoc16 Posted 1 January Share Posted 1 January On 19/08/2016 at 23:40, JMB1943 said: I would like to enlist the help of the bayonet aficionados here to try to derive a guesstimate for the number of these bayonets that are still in existence. They are plentiful on auction sites, but millions were produced. To do this, I intend to use the 'Smiling Tiger' bayonets supplied by BSA to the government of Siam in 1920 as surrogates. This was a contract for exactly 10,000, compared to the estimated production numbers for the P.'07 that are given in British & Commonwealth Bayonets (Skennerton & Richardson). For my purposes, a survival rate of the Smiling Tigers in Siam/Thailand after 100 yrs will be assumed to be comparable to that of the P.'07 in the GW and post-war period. I have one Smiling Tiger bayonet and am aware of 11 others. If anybody has one, or has knowledge of numbers in museum collections (you can name) or in private collections (please do NOT name, unless it is YOUR collection) please let me know. Regards, JMB [Edit: I am aware of 9 Vickers P. 07's of the approx. 10,000 produced by them. This and the Smiling Tigers data would suggest initially a survival rate of about 1 in 1,000.] One more your records Kind regards g Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navydoc16 Posted 1 January Share Posted 1 January (edited) On 19/08/2016 at 23:40, JMB1943 said: I would like to enlist the help of the bayonet aficionados here to try to derive a guesstimate for the number of these bayonets that are still in existence. They are plentiful on auction sites, but millions were produced. To do this, I intend to use the 'Smiling Tiger' bayonets supplied by BSA to the government of Siam in 1920 as surrogates. This was a contract for exactly 10,000, compared to the estimated production numbers for the P.'07 that are given in British & Commonwealth Bayonets (Skennerton & Richardson). For my purposes, a survival rate of the Smiling Tigers in Siam/Thailand after 100 yrs will be assumed to be comparable to that of the P.'07 in the GW and post-war period. I have one Smiling Tiger bayonet and am aware of 11 others. If anybody has one, or has knowledge of numbers in museum collections (you can name) or in private collections (please do NOT name, unless it is YOUR collection) please let me know. Regards, JMB [Edit: I am aware of 9 Vickers P. 07's of the approx. 10,000 produced by them. This and the Smiling Tigers data would suggest initially a survival rate of about 1 in 1,000.] On a random note JMB, did you consider taking data for the Vickers in lieu of the "Tigers"? it would seem that the Vickers may be better to gauge against for the wartime service reasons . Whilst the Tigers sat until surrender and eventual worldwide distribution. Even if the Vickers are an estimate, the Siamese has until the age of the internet been a "foreign" unknown bayonet in many commonwealth countries which kept these bayonets as war trophies or momentos. Also Vickers are easier to search up and unearth when you find them in "grand-dads" things and sell off on ebay, for the layman you can't search up "gibberish" when you read it, so I would think many more are known on the open market Slightly skewes the data extrapolation? in my addled brain haha - Although without serial numbers you would have to get photographic evidence of each bayonet and that would get very tiresome. I think I may have answered my own question - Just I was thinking there are a decent amount of Smiling Tigers both rifles and bayonets here in Aus, I have seen maybe 40 rifles and 30 bayonets in person over the years. Generally see 30 Siamese rifles traded openly a year via online sites (paying no accounting for duplication) kind regards, g Edited 1 January by navydoc16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMB1943 Posted 1 January Author Share Posted 1 January 19 minutes ago, navydoc16 said: Slightly skewes the data extrapolation? in my addled brain haha - Although without serial numbers you would have to get photographic evidence of each bayonet and that would get very tiresome. Navydoc, Yes, at 10,000 made by Vickers they would seem at first glance to be the ideal surrogates. However, without a serial number it would be VERY difficult to get an accurate count, even with photos. @t.ryan is the Keeper of the Photos for the Smiling Tigers, because wear/corrosion/poor stamping make even some of these serialled bayos difficult to be certain of. Regards, JMB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMB1943 Posted 1 January Author Share Posted 1 January Navydoc, Thanks for posting your #2622, but that is actually one of the older numbers in our register. Recorded by @Phil B here on the forum on 30-Apr-21. Regards, JMB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navydoc16 Posted 1 January Share Posted 1 January Also on a random note, get your photo mate to save the photos in his phone, I emailed the above ones them to myself, then they can be edited for sharpness and brightness. half you couldn’t read as the posts weren’t intended for serial number reading, but I think they’re clearish enough to read now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMB1943 Posted 1 January Author Share Posted 1 January Navydoc, Thanks for posting those dozen photos. The numbers, as best as I can tell, are (top to bottom) 4236; 3496; 6356; 6384; 6339; 9792; 6714; 999(3?); 9792; 6847; 7923; 3202. Of these, 4236; 3496; 6356; 6384; 6714; 7923; 3202 appear to be new serials. I am in the process of updating the Table, which was last posted on 21-Oct-23; expect to see that soon. Regards, JMB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMB1943 Posted 1 January Author Share Posted 1 January (edited) OK, chaps, the sorry truth is that we are still well short of 300!!! Currently at 288, and the collector on the Gunboards forum who reputedly has 15 big cats has not responded to my requests to provide his serials. So, I don't see us getting to 300 this year......... Table (updated 1-Jan-24) 1 1013 2011 3008 4060 5021 6013 7056 8089 9047 32xx 6 1021 2078 3022 4070 5027 6014 7094 8104 9070 5x46 35 1046 2106 3070 4078 5044 6107 7128 8181 9088 608x 67 1048 2133 3090 4087 5066 6137 7143 8262 9091 808x 96 1099 2177 3155 4116 5154 6212 7187 8349 9130 x2x2 107 1115 2247 3202 4127 5168 6249 7214 8363 9185 xx1 130 1118 2278 3260 4150 5171 6279 7441 8388 9229 x070 145 1166 2280 3279 4236 5221 6285 7538 8415 9233 104x 320 1202 2339 3290 4335 5225 6339 7594 8496 9264 x33x 326 1241 2390 3349 4378 5278 6356 7600 8594 9288 x95 330 1306 2399 3372 4403 5351 6368 7611 8625 9296 71x 341 1326 2411 3395 4406 5391 6384 7626 8651 9306 16xx 392 1348 2418 3400 4409 5405 6430 7745 8712 9337 X97 404 1367 2529 3449 4451 5411 6476 7778 8714 9338 437x 427 1431 2590 3454 4454 5502 6485 7860 8726 9356 X400 456 1482 2622 3496 4496 5531 6527 7923 8732 9372 298x 505 1485 2675 3572 4537 5603 6557 7948 8737 9383 X694 516 1527 2702 3673 4570 5960 6581 7973 8751 9385 541 1584 2715 3682 4629 6630 7999 8783 9412 544 1635 2784 3689 4632 6714 8793 9413 577 1658 2815 3797 4650 6732 8832 9458 590 1757 2833 3810 4651 6737 8833 9459 625 1758 2849 3815 4654 6750 8964 9499 644 1761 2851 3816 4724 6801 9502 649 1829 2925 3893 4770 6819 9559 711 1831 2936 3958 4779 6831 9589 714 1860 3992 4803 6847 9737 732 1889 4983 9792 788 1926 9851 827 1980 9903 836 9908 847 9931 866 9957 941 9968 979 9973 997 9993 10,000 36 30 26 27 28 18 27 19 23 36 17 = 288 Edited 1 January by JMB1943 typo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil B Posted 1 January Share Posted 1 January My dear JMB if all you yanks were pessimistic the world would have crumbled centuries ago. Of course we will make 300 in the near future. The odds are in our favour. 3% of the tiger tooth population is only a drop in the bucket. I do agree that more could be done with a dedicated facebook page however I personally don’t have the time or patience to administer such an undertaking. 300 is the Goal for 2024 and I’m confident it is achievable even with the current limitations of our group. I will be going on safari as soon as the shows start up and hopefully find some more breeding stock for my collection currently at 18 with 19 on the way to me this week. so put on your bush hat and start beating the brush to see what we can flush out best regards and a happy New Year Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t.ryan Posted 2 January Share Posted 2 January JMB, We are away on walkabout at the moment, so only working on IPad. Nice to see a new lot of smiling tigers show up. Could you check #3 down, looks 6346 to me, and I think we have a better photo of # 999? 3/7, could be 7. Will check when back home in a few days. Happy new year to all. Cheers, TR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMB1943 Posted 2 January Author Share Posted 2 January Mr TR, Yes, you are correct (again) it is indeed 6346. I shall repost the corrected Table tomorrow. Have a pleasant walkabout — enjoy any gunshows or good museums in your path! All the best for the New Year, JMB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navydoc16 Posted 2 January Share Posted 2 January (edited) 10 hours ago, JMB1943 said: Navydoc, Thanks for posting those dozen photos. The numbers, as best as I can tell, are (top to bottom) 4236; 3496; 6356; 6384; 6339; 9792; 6714; 999(3?); 9792; 6847; 7923; 3202. Of these, 4236; 3496; 6356; 6384; 6714; 7923; 3202 appear to be new serials. I am in the process of updating the Table, which was last posted on 21-Oct-23; expect to see that soon. Regards, JMB I have gotten bored and see if I can't find a couple more to get you to the 300, I am doing my absolute best to not give you duplicates but I can't read this to any degree, except the 0 and 1. kind regards, g Edited 2 January by navydoc16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMB1943 Posted 2 January Author Share Posted 2 January (edited) Navydoc, See, and scroll down to find the page of Siamese numerals, which is the key that we all use for our serial identification. It is in the 5th post by @Phil B on the page. The numerals are quite easy to learn when you have done a few. You will see that your latest number is 1829, which we have already seen. Regards, JMB Edited 2 January by JMB1943 typo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navydoc16 Posted 2 January Share Posted 2 January 1 minute ago, JMB1943 said: Navydoc, See, and scroll down to find the page of Siamese numerals, which is the key that we all use for our serial identification. It is in the 2nd or 3rd post by @Phil B on the page. The numerals are quite easy to learn when you have done a few. You will see that your latest number is 1829, which we have already seen. Regards, JMB Haha not quite, I'm seeing a lot of variation between the various guides and the stampings but I am getting better, my old eyes are however still having trouble working it all out but I have weeded out a few, and I think some of these may be new? Kind regards, g Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t.ryan Posted 2 January Share Posted 2 January navydoc16 You are close, If there is a number which we cannot see clearly it is added to the list on the last column with an x as the unknown number. Photos top to bottom, I think we already have some of them listed earlier. x95 8793 505 4335? Bottom photo to hard to call any numbers. May be x85x JMB The # you called 6714 above is actually 8714 which I think we already have on the list. Cheers, TR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navydoc16 Posted 2 January Share Posted 2 January 56 minutes ago, t.ryan said: navydoc16 You are close, If there is a number which we cannot see clearly it is added to the list on the last column with an x as the unknown number. Photos top to bottom, I think we already have some of them listed earlier. x95 8793 505 4335? Bottom photo to hard to call any numbers. May be x85x JMB The # you called 6714 above is actually 8714 which I think we already have on the list. Cheers, TR Sorry for the mistakes 4737? Kind regards g Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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