What`s on the Infantry Lanyard?

[GRANVILLE]

LF, a pair of excellent photos but of course these both show the jack knife being carried from the sensible position of a waist belt - where I'm sure the majority ended up. I note that no one has as yet expressed an opinion of the question I posed the other day which was: what was the rationale of the decision to require the knife to be carried in the upper left tunic pocket?

David

[Tomo.T]

Thanks for the pics LF, Interesting belt on the balloon attendant.

 

Granville, the old adage comes to mind;     'Ours is not to reason why'........but perhaps it was intended as extra personal protection when advancing against machine guns !

 

Tomo

Edited 25 September , 2016 by Tomo.T

[GRANVILLE]

1 hour ago, Tomo.T said:

Thanks for the pics LF, Interesting belt on the balloon attendant.

 

Granville, the old adage comes to mind;     'Ours is not to reason why'........but perhaps it was intended as extra personal protection when advancing against machine guns !

 

Tomo

[Muerrisch]

Do we have a definitive order or instruction regarding pocket stowage?

[Lancashire Fusilier]

2 hours ago, Tomo.T said:

Thanks for the pics LF, Interesting belt on the balloon attendant.

 

Tomo,

 

The Airman on the left of the balloon appears to be wearing the same fabric & leather belt, which seems to have 2 or 3 spring snap hooks attached to the front and back of the belt for attaching items such as a clasp knife.

 

Regards,

LF

[Tomo.T]

LF  This could be the first ever utility belt.

 

Muerisch  I think it has been established that officialdom placed the clasp knife in the LH breast pocket on the end of a non specified lanyard.

 

Tomo

[johnboy]

On 22/09/2016 at 23:29, Tomo.T said:

I think not a whistle, but it's a good place to keep a pocket watch, or indeed a clasp knife although the latter was usually worn around the waist on a string lanyard.

 

Are there pics available that show clasp knives worn around the waist on a string landyard?

[GRANVILLE]

1 minute ago, johnboy said:

 

Are there pics available that show clasp knives worn around the waist on a string landyard?

Yes, although can't post one at short notice. You see Seamen also wearing them on string around the waist.

 

David

[Tomo.T]

 I'm sure it occurred but it may not have been as prevalent as I first thought. By the 2nd world war the 'waist lanyard' was standard issue. In the First War it seems to have been more common to wear the knife suspended from the belt.

 

Tomo 

[johnboy]

1 hour ago, GRANVILLE said:

Yes, although can't post one at short notice. You see Seamen also wearing them on string around the waist.

 

David

 The question is about soldiers and lanyards. I am not sure that seamen wore a lanyard or even had a breast pocket.

[Muerrisch]

With regard to the universal issue on Mobilization, I have had a thorough search and fond only one possible reference: Mob Regs 1914, para 65, which refers to "special articles [Clothing Regs Part III] for active service".

 

I do not have Part III.

[GRANVILLE]

1 hour ago, johnboy said:

 The question is about soldiers and lanyards. I am not sure that seamen wore a lanyard or even had a breast pocket.

With respect, your question was: Are there pics available that show clasp knives worn around the waist on a string landyard? It said nothing about being soldier specif so I answered the question. Seamen did not have lanyards or breast pockets but they were issued with Jack Knives and they were worn around their waists on a length of rope/string.

 

David

[johnboy]

Look at the title of the thread and you will see it is about Infantry Lanyards..

[Muerrisch]

can we cut the bickering and get to the root of OFFICIAL ISSUE TO INFANTRY?

 

Please.

[Steven Broomfield]

Somewhat of a tangent, but in Post 17, what regiment is the Jock stretcher-bearer? He appears to have a 'T10' shoulder title and the badge sort-of but not entirely looks Liverpool Scottish-ish. I'm bewildered.

[Tomo.T]

Grovetown has him listed as Liverpool Scots.

[Toby Brayley]

As discussed. Clasp knives worn in the left breast pocket from a lanyard around the neck, I have many similar photos, particularly of mounted units wearing them in this fashion into 1914/15. These chaps are from the Mounted Infantry Section of the 3rd Battalion (SouthPort), King's Liverpool Regiment c1902.

 

 

Toby.

 

*EDIT* In the 1912 Standing orders for the 11th Hussars. It still mentions that the knife is to be worn from the neck lanyard and placed in the Left Pocket. 

 

Pictured below still doing so in 1914.

 

Edited 26 September , 2016 by Toby Brayley

[Toby Brayley]

See above.

[PhilB]

That`s a very long jack knife in the middle chap`s pocket Toby (post #42)? Those are both mounted units so isn`t it likely to be a horse related item? Did they have a thing for "getting stones out of horse`s hooves"?

[Medaler]

This may be obvious, but left breast pocket makes sense in preference to right breast pocket - right breast pocket might well impede bringing a rifle into the shoulder.

 

Taken that answer to the question "What do you find on the end of an infantryman's lanyard?" is not answered by "An infantryman", I had always assumed it might be some device to extract stuck cartridge cases from the breech. Could the knife have been used for that? - If so, then the left breast pocket perhaps makes some sense, particularly if shooting from a prone or kneeling position.

 

Just a thought - not coming from any knowledge I have other than not wanting stuff in my right breast pocket when out shooting. In fact, having a right breast pocket was something to be avoided altogether when a situation might dictate a rapid and unexpected "mount" if an unexpected target suddenly presented itself.

 

Regards,

Mike

Edited 26 September , 2016 by Medaler
Grammar correction

[Toby Brayley]

Just now, PhilB said:

That`s a very long jack knife in the middle chap`s pocket Toby (post #42)? Those are both mounted units so isn`t it likely to be a horse related item? Did they have a thing for "getting stones out of horse`s hooves"?

 

Phil, That is about the right size of the clasp knife of the period. The folding hoof pic was very small in comparison. They stopped using the pic c1908 (from memory, need to check facts) and started using the Marlin Spike on the clasp knife. 

 

 

 

In my humble opinion wearing it in the left breast pocket just makes it easier to access, remember prior to 1908 nearly everyone, including infantry, would be in a form of bandolier equipment that would obscure the right pocket. 

 

Anyway I must apologise Phil, I am hi-jacking your thread with mounted units!!

[PhilB]

No problem, Toby. All information gladly received. Any photos of the "long jack knife" as issued to Edwardian mounted men?

 

[Ron Clifton]

Hello all

 

Clothing Regs Part I specify a "knife, clasp, with lanyard" as standard equipment for mounted arms, but not for infantry and certain other corps such as RAMC and APC. (Table XVI, Necessaries)

 

Clothing Regs Part III specifies that these items are to be issued to/retained by all those proceeding on active service (i.e. including infantry etc).

 

Field Service Pocket Book 1914 specifies that mounted men are to have "knife, clasp, with marline spike, tin-opener and lanyard" but dismounted men have "knife, clasp, with marline spike and tin-opener". They also exclude "knife, table" from items taken on active service, which I interpret as meaning that the clasp knife was expected to double in that role and, therefore, would probably be carried in the haversack or housewife, with the fork and spoon.

 

My conclusion would therefore be that, if the lanyard was issued to infantry at all, it would not necessarily be used to secure the clasp knife. You certainly don't see many pictures of infantry wearing them, other than in posed pictures.

 

Ron

[Tomo.T]

Here's mine

[Tomo.T]

Knife is a 6353/ 1905 by J. Clarke & Sons Sheffield ( N.E.V.A. ) It has a faint W /I\ D 1 stamp on the tin opener and the blade is F sharp.

Edited 26 September , 2016 by Tomo.T