What`s on the Infantry Lanyard?

[Muerrisch]

Public thanks to Ron: the facts, as opposed to suppositions, speak for themselves.

 

In war the official scale of issue was:

 

Horsed and the Corps with a few exceptions: yes, knife and lanyard.

 

Infantry: knife yes, lanyard no. Infantrymen pictured wearing lanyards may well have nothing much on the end, and probably bought their own from the nearest supplier. [There is also the possibility of demi-official unit issue, funded from unofficial sources].

 

Fascinating, and possibly, just possibly, the end of a myth. The answer to the OP is that the infantry should not have had a lanyard to put anything on [or, as Churchill would have it, "on which to put anything"]

Edited 26 September , 2016 by Muerrisch
speeling erra

[Tomo.T]

33 minutes ago, Ron Clifton said:

Hello all

 

Clothing Regs Part I specify a "knife, clasp, with lanyard" as standard equipment for mounted arms, but not for infantry and certain other corps such as RAMC and APC. (Table XVI, Necessaries)

 

Clothing Regs Part III specifies that these items are to be issued to/retained by all those proceeding on active service (i.e. including infantry etc).

 

Field Service Pocket Book 1914 specifies that mounted men are to have "knife, clasp, with marline spike, tin-opener and lanyard" but dismounted men have "knife, clasp, with marline spike and tin-opener". They also exclude "knife, table" from items taken on active service, which I interpret as meaning that the clasp knife was expected to double in that role and, therefore, would probably be carried in the haversack or housewife, with the fork and spoon.

 

My conclusion would therefore be that, if the lanyard was issued to infantry at all, it would not necessarily be used to secure the clasp knife. You certainly don't see many pictures of infantry wearing them, other than in posed pictures.

 

Ron

 

Thanks Ron that's very helpful 

[PhilB]

The Clothing Regs don`t appear to distinguish between the single strand and plaited lanyards and I would guess they refer to the single strand. Is there any documentation that refers unequivocally to the plaited lanyard?

As a matter of interest, I never wore a plaited lanyard as a REME NS man but I was issued with a single strand lanyard which only came out for kit inspections. My brother, also a REME NS man bought and wore a plaited lanyard as did all his campmates in a workshop at Mill Hill. He said there was nothing on it but it brightened up a drab uniform!

[Tomo.T]

34 minutes ago, PhilB said:

The Clothing Regs don`t appear to distinguish between the single strand and plaited lanyards and I would guess they refer to the single strand. Is there any documentation that refers unequivocally to the plaited lanyard?

As a matter of interest, I never wore a plaited lanyard as a REME NS man but I was issued with a single strand lanyard which only came out for kit inspections. My brother, also a REME NS man bought and wore a plaited lanyard as did all his campmates in a workshop at Mill Hill. He said there was nothing on it but it brightened up a drab uniform!

 

As has been mentioned before the type of lanyard ( and there were up to 6 to choose from ) was left to the individual Corps and Regiments. The plaited one is more decorative than practical and therefore I believe employed more as an item of uniform in certain Corps and regiments. However if you had one you might as well stick your knife on the end of it, however impractical .

 

Tomo

 

 

 

Edited 26 September , 2016 by Tomo.T

[Muerrisch]

8 minutes ago, Tomo.T said:

 

As has been mentioned before the type of lanyard ( and there were up to 6 to choose from ) was left to the individual Corps and Regiments. The plaited one is more decorative than practical and therefore I believe employed more as an item of uniform in certain Corps and regiments. 

 

Tomo

 

 

 

 

Please do you have chapter and verse regarding "left to individual corps and regiments"?

[Tomo.T]

Yes Sir, It was in one of Joe Sweeney's threads on the subject.

 

[Muerrisch]

Thank you. Unfortunately dear Joe is no longer with us to question. We have already seen that the issue of lanyard with knife for infantry [as he maintained]  was not correct.

 

I don't think he quoted a reference for his statement on regimental choice from six and, like the rest of us, his say-so is not Gospel. Marvellous he was, infallible he was not. We had several good-natured disagreements off-GWF. I even won the occasional one.

 

Choice? The jury is out.

[Tomo.T]

6 minutes ago, Muerrisch said:

Thank you. Unfortunately dear Joe is no longer with us to question. We have already seen that the issue of lanyard with knife for infantry [as he maintained]  was not correct.

 

I don't think he quoted a reference for his statement on regimental choice from six and, like the rest of us, his say-so is not Gospel. Marvellous he was, infallible he was not. We had several good-natured disagreements off-GWF. I even won the occasional one.

 

Choice? The jury is out.

 

Are you suggesting the lanyards were specified ?

[Tomo.T]

Ok I understand. What Joe meant was that he couldn't find any specific allocations of lanyards and without that evidence, we can't really say either way. Nonetheless new ground has been broken here and I have mostly enjoyed the learning process. Which is what it's all about after all.

 

Tomo

[johnboy]

I have seen documents relating to men who were presumed AWOL or not returned from leave etc that give a list and cost of items issued to them and also missing. These items included greatcoats, comforters, underwear, clasp knives, but I am sure I have not seen lanyards.

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

Absolutely amazing picture Toby. (Post #42)

Did the Health & Safety people ever get to give an opinion regarding lanyards around the neck?

Cord of any description around the neck is always dangerous, always has been dangerous and was known to be dangerous long before 1914.

It would make these men extremely vulnerable in close quarter fighting in a trench I would have thought, their enemy already has a dangerous weapon around his opponent's neck.

And for that very same reason, police, paramedics and even pupils in some schools,  now are only allowed to wear clip on ties.

 

Toby's post#42 is just an accident waiting to happen.

Man back left has a bird's nest tucked behind his bandolier.

Man stood next to him has a long loop just waiting to snag in anything. If that were a power machine, it could be nasty.

At least the chap front left has plaited his inordinately long lanyard into a more practical short length.

The least said about man standing front right, the better,

He seems to have a lanyard on his lanyard!!!

[Muerrisch]

See also Boy Scouts in my day [yes, I had a day].

 

Not only a neckerchief clasped with a woggle, but a pristine lanyard laced front, crossover to back crossover to front etc .............. and a knife on the end clipped to the belt.

 

And we were allowed to carry in addition a sheath knife of fearsome length and sharpness. 

 

Elf n Safety had not been heard of, but there were very few accidents. Or very few reported.

 

 

[Toby Brayley]

I think post #post48 by Ron does indeed clear it up! 

 

My picture does look like a health and safety nightmare.

 

 I do notice though that all the images I have of the 11th Hussars etc on exercise in the pre war period, the lanyards are not worn in this fashion (or are better concealed at the very least), If you see the famous images from the Pitman collection of the 11th in action in 1914 (weeks after the picture was taken) the laynards are absent, despite their mention  in the, 1912,1913 and 1914 SO's. I can only speculate that it was a "practice around camp". 

Edited 27 September , 2016 by Toby Brayley

[PhilB]

Ref photo #42, those look like single strand lanyards which have been plaited by the men themselves (some better than others!). I`m wondering if the (neatly) plaited lanyard is a non-official development of the sometimes poorly plaited single strand lanyard developed primarily as a decorative item. I`ve seen no evidence yet that a plaited lanyard was ever an official WW1 item of kit?

 

 

from http://www.remuseum.org.uk/rem_his_tradition.htm
 

Corps Lanyard and Stable Belt

Lanyard - The Royal Engineers lanyard is navy blue and worn on the right shoulder. Since 19th century plain lanyards were used for securing the jackknife which was issued to all mounted troops. It was intended to be worn around the waist but soldiers soon found it to be more convenient to wear it on the shoulder with the knife in the breast pocket. The Royal Engineers, as did other corps and regiments of the British Army, introduced the lanyard to brighten up their battledress uniform in 1951.

Edited 27 September , 2016 by PhilB

[MBrockway]

20 hours ago, PhilB said:

The Clothing Regs don`t appear to distinguish between the single strand and plaited lanyards and I would guess they refer to the single strand. Is there any documentation that refers unequivocally to the plaited lanyard?

As a matter of interest, I never wore a plaited lanyard as a REME NS man but I was issued with a single strand lanyard which only came out for kit inspections. My brother, also a REME NS man bought and wore a plaited lanyard as did all his campmates in a workshop at Mill Hill. He said there was nothing on it but it brightened up a drab uniform!

My father was also REME NS (a watchmaker).  I am currently holding his knife and lanyard.  The knife is the Joseph Rodgers 1945 infantry version without grip or marlinspike.  The lanyard is unplaited 3-ply hawser-laid cord about 4mm across.  It is eye-spliced at each end, a short loop at the knife end, which is larks footed around the ring on the knife, and a longer loop at the other end.  From memory, the longer loop was approx the size required to go around the arm at the shoulder.  I have had the lanyard tightly wrapped in a hanger coil since the 1970's and since it's not of our period, unwrapping it to give proper measurements is not worth the effort!