London Regiment Question

[Jay Oen]

What a great forum!!! I got so busy reading all the posts, I almost forgot to ask for help myself. Obviously a lot of very informed people, with a great passion for the The Great War.

I have been looking for information about my family in the war and have learned a LOT about the war I never knew before. It has been amazing how much is out on the web.

Anyway.....

Here's my situation. I found my Great Grandad's medal card at the National Achives web site and even found where he's buried at the GWGC site. Unbelievable!!!

I copied his CWGC info below.

How do I now decipher his unit text? Is that 2nd unit 19th batallion?

The sites I've found have a few different London regiments listed. How do I figure out which one he's in?

I'd like to find out where he died, and I 'm sure once I figure out where his London regiment was on Dec 10th 1917 then we will know.

I know since he died Dec 10th 1917, one would assume hed died in the fight for Jerusalem where he's buried, but the family has always been told he died of wounds suffered in Alexandria, Egypt.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

JAY

Name: JESSEMEY

Initials: H G

Nationality: United Kingdom

Rank: Private

Regiment: London Regiment

Unit Text: 2nd/19th Bn.

Date of Death: 10/12/1917

Service No: 613882

Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead

[Max]

Hello Jay and welcome to the forum.

In December 1917 the 2/19th London Reg. were involved in the capture and defence of Jerusalem, this being consistant with the burial place of your Great Grandad.

If you follow the links it will give you more info re the 2/19th, the 60th Division and the Palestine theatre of operations.

http://www.1914-1918.net/london.htm

http://www.1914-1918.net/60div.htm

http://www.1914-1918.net/palestine.htm

Good luck

Andy

[Jay Oen]

WOW !! Thanks Andy.

I've been to that site and even read the palestine section.

Please tell me hoe did you get the 60th division from 2/19th, and what do the 2 & 19 stand for.

Thanks,

JAY

[HERITAGE PLUS]

Jay

Welcome

See: http://www.1914-1918.net/tf.htm

Which is taken from the forum's mothersite.

Dave

[DrB]

Jay...the "2" means the second line territorial group raised and the 19th London Battalion is the St. Pancras battalion of the London Regiment, which were Territorials. The 2/19 are found in the 60th Division by looking at an OB or "Order of Battle." It is just knowing where to navigate to when one has a question. OK?

It just takes some time and patience, but you will get that by your questions. Keep at it, bulldog!

DrB

[bmac]

Charles Fair, who is a member of this forum, has the 19th Londons listed as one of his special interests. I know he has helped people on WW1 newsgroups so it might be worthwhile contacting him if you want more information about your man.

Meanwhile, here is some general information about the London Regiment courtesy of the late Iain Kerr who was a great help to many on the Great War Roots web news group.

=========

The County of London Regiment

The Haldane Reforms of 1908 included the creation of the Territorial Force in 1908. In London there was a need to absorb the mixture of volunteer and militia units that had existed in Greater London since the mid-19th century. They were renamed as the 28 battalions of The County of London Regiment. Each battalion was organised on an eight company basis and placed under War Office control and usually affiliated to a regular regiment. Some of the battalion names reflected the boroughs of the new County of London (that is defined by the creation of the London County Council at the turn of the century). Many of the battalions were designated rifle battalions having their origins in the Rifle Volunteer Corps. Some additional battalions were added to the County of London Regiment in the later months of WWI.

The first nine battalions of the regiment were properly referred to as City of London Battalions since they had their origins within the ancient City of London (the "square mile").

The County of London Regiment was awarded 64 battle honours and nine of its

officers and men were awarded the Victoria Cross during World War I. The

London Regiment lost 29,100 casualties during the Great War.

The County of London Regiment ceased to exist in 1937, when many of its battalions had become firmly affiliated as territorial battalions of regular infantry regiments. Others were reroled as Royal Engineers, Royal Artillery and Royal Armoured Corps units to meet the demands of the impending Second World War.

[Charles Fair]

Jay

I am pleased to be able to post this on the anniversary of your gtgrandfathers death. Here is what I have on him from my database:

613882 Pte Harold George JESSEMEY

served overseas:

Salonika 30 March 1917 to 9 June 1917 (temporarily attached 9th Entrenching Battalion 3 to 7 April 1917)

Palestine 12 June 1917 to 10 Dec 1917

The source Soldiers Died in the Great War says that he was "formerly 35795 Pte KRRC" (Kings Royal Rifle Corps). Other men with similar numbers to your grandfathers who also died were also former KRRC men e.g. 613880 Pte Philip David HOLMAN, formerly 35784 KRRC. This draft of men also all appear to have arrived in Salonika on 30 March 1917. I dont know whether they enlisted in the KRRC at first, or had enlisted in something else first before the KRRC - you would need a KRRC expert to tell you that.

He would almost certainly have been a conscript and I suspect may have enlisted in Dec 1916. The man after him, 613883 Pte Frederick John LAWRENCE enlisted on 20/12/16 and was in the same block, also arriving in Salonika with the same draft, but as Lawrence didnt die in the war I do not yet know for certain whether he was a fomer KRRC man too.

Died of Wounds 10/12/17 at Jerusalem

buried: Jerusalem War Cem

born: Walthamstow, Essex

enlisted: Walthamstow, Essex

resided: Walthamstow , Essex

Sources:

Eames, "The Second Nineteenth" p. 173 (the Roll of Honour)

Soldiers Died in the Great War

Memories, the Journal of the Old Comrades Association of the 19th London Regt, 1925 Q1 (the Roll of Honour)

British war Medal & Victory Medal Roll, 19th London Regt p. 367

He also appears on the Regimental War Memorial in the vestibule of St Pancras Church near Euston Station.

Jay - do you live near London? This saturday 11 Dec 2004 the Old Comrades Association of the 19th London Regiment is holding a Jerusalem Dinner to commemorate the capture of that city by the 2/19th and 60th Division. This is reviving a practice which has lapsed for at least 40 years. There are at least two others coming whose ancsestors were in that battle.

Hope to hear from you soon

Charles

[Jay Oen]

Mr. Fair, I sent you this in an email, and now am posting it here to make sure you se it.

Mr. Fair,

THANK YOU.

I really appreciate you taking the time to share your knowledge of the 2/19th and my Great Grandfather with me. I've spent 25-30 hours on the internet researching what really happened to him and luckily found the GWF and got my last few questions answered. During this research I found myself reading about some of the many battles of the war, and being filled with every emotion I have, while reading soldiers' diaries of trench life and the type of warfare of the era. This made my search for him even more meaningful.

I'll bore you with a little family history.

The family always believed that Great Grandfather Jessemey and some of his four brothers died in Egypt in the war. When I found his medal card at the national archives and found he was buried in Jerusalem, my interest was aroused and started me on my journney to learn more about the circumstances of his death. In my looking I found only one brother had died and 3 others had lived through the war and I was actually able to make contact via email with relatives we didn't know we had!!

The only history we all had until recently was that when Great Grandma Beatrice was widowed in the war she headed "across the pond" with her young son (my grandfather) and ended up with relations near Vancouver Canada. Eventually she came south across the border in to Washington State in the US of A. where my Grandfather grew up, got married, and had SIX daughters, so the Jessemey name did not survive in the states. My mother is the oldest of those six and I am the oldest Grandson. Im 40 years old and live in Sequim Washington (look it up online) with my wife and two daughters. So, while I would have been more than thrilled to take you up on your offer to have dinner with the Old Comrades Association of the 19th London Regiment (it sounds like a group I would enjoy!) it was not possible! Maybe next year HA!

Sorry to bore you with our family history, but now you , I suppose, because of your help in the matter, have become a small part of it. So, thank you again.

Very sincerely,

Jay Oen

P.S. Is there any info on the internet regarding the KRRC that you could point me to?