The British Army and the First World War

[Guest]

If any one has read The British Army and the First World War by Ian Beckett, Timothy Bowman and Mark Connelly I would be interested in hearing your views.

 

I have just purchased it and will start reading it tonight. I have a great respect for all three authors' prior works, so it seemed worth the leap of faith. Any informed views would be very welcome. MG

[paulgranger]

Martin

 

17 hours ago, QGE said:

If any one has read The British Army and the First World War by Ian Beckett, Timothy Bowman and Mark Connelly I would be interested in hearing your views.

 

I have just purchased it and will start reading it tonight. I have a great respect for all three authors' prior works, so it seemed worth the leap of faith. Any informed views would be very welcome. MG

 

This is on my wants list, so I haven't yet read it. Also on my wants list is https://www.amazon.co.uk/Futile-Exercise-Preparations-1902-1914-Wolverhampton/dp/1911512854/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1493217464&sr=1-1&keywords=a+futile+exercise

 

I know you've moved on from 1914 and all its travails, but this does look as if it might add some decent background as to events in the first few months of the war, covering similar ground to Spencer Jones 'From Boer War to World War'..

 

PG

[Guest]

2 hours ago, paulgranger said:

Martin

 

 

This is on my wants list, so I haven't yet read it. Also on my wants list is https://www.amazon.co.uk/Futile-Exercise-Preparations-1902-1914-Wolverhampton/dp/1911512854/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1493217464&sr=1-1&keywords=a+futile+exercise

 

I know you've moved on from 1914 and all its travails, but this does look as if it might add some decent background as to events in the first few months of the war, covering similar ground to Spencer Jones 'From Boer War to World War'..

 

PG

 

       Futile Exercise?: The British Army's Preparations for War 1902-1914 (Wolverhampton Series) Hardcover – 15 Sep 2017

 

         Interesting that this book is listed on Amazon at £29.95- for pre-publication orders- when it comes out in September. From Helion, in the Wolverhampton Series. Our Forum colleague Gibbo's book on oil and the war has just come out in the same series and from the same publisher. Interesting to note that it's list price from Helion is also £29.95-but that immediately on publication there copies available for less than half that. 

   The Gibbo book looks good. Solid piece of work, well organised and researched.  But-seriously and not detracting from his excellent book- just how does the Helion pricing system work?  Wait until the day after publication and its half price????????????

[Guest]

2 hours ago, paulgranger said:

Martin

This is on my wants list, so I haven't yet read it. Also on my wants list is https://www.amazon.co.uk/Futile-Exercise-Preparations-1902-1914-Wolverhampton/dp/1911512854/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1493217464&sr=1-1&keywords=a+futile+exercise

I know you've moved on from 1914 and all its travails, but this does look as if it might add some decent background as to events in the first few months of the war, covering similar ground to Spencer Jones 'From Boer War to World War'..

PG

 

 

I have read the introduction and the chapters on Officers and the 1914 campaign. On this basis alone I would recommend the book. The only caveat is that the authors are trying to compress the Western Front into a single volume; (something that took Edmonds 10 volumes I think)  and will always force some compromises in the level of detail given the limited space. It is a bold attempt. 

 

It is beautifully written and binds together a number of thematics that have run astray in other publications. Some was 'new' information, particularly the extent to which the Staff of the command structure of the BE were often at loggerheads. The introduction covers this historiography well and challenges or tweaks some more recent revisionist and post-revisionist views. One gets the sense it is written by authors who know. their stuff.

 

There are inevitably a few small errors though; the claim that there was no TF in Ireland (there were  two small outposts of a Highland Regt in Belfast and Dublin I believe), that no Special Reserve units other than the North and South Irish Horse served overseas (a number of Reserve battalions served overseas in France, some as early as March 1915 - Extra Reserve battalions but still part of the Special Reserve and manned by Special Reservists) and rather broad brush comments on the Reservists that don't quite convey the reality of 1914. The authors imply all men sent from Reserve units in 1914 were Reservists and SR, which rather misses the point that they also consolidated many hundreds of Regulars and re-enlisted men who also formed parts of later reinforcement drafts.  They confused the location of  5th Div's deployment on forward slopes at Le Cateau with Mons and compound this by claimig it lost  'third' of its field artillery (it was closer to 50% according to Becke writing for the RA Institute). On Le Cateau the BEF are described as fighting with great 'skill', something that does not quite align with some parts of the battlefield, particularly the small disasters on each flank. I can only assume these were slip ups or the unintended consequences of editing rather than lack of knowledge... though more than offset my a myriad of interesting snippets such as the dismissal of Ferguson, confirmation that Edmonds tried to massage the dates he had his breakdown as just some examples. 

 

Slightly disappointing was the occasional contradiction within a few lines; we are told there was no HE fired before Dec 1915 yet the very next page describes HE being fired on 19th Oct 1915 for example. The regurgitation of Edmonds' OH casualty stats needed caveats. The role of the Cavalry and the Indian Corps are slightly glossed over at Ypres. Lastly most of the references comes from secondary sources, which leaves one to assume the authors are confident in the integrity of these sources. 

 

Overall the chapter on 1914 focused on the problems with the BEF's lack of preparedness, its strategy (or lack of it), poor resources (men materiel, ammunition) and challenges of command and control. The conclusions are rather interesting and food for thought. 

 

On balance I really enjoyed the chapters but I think the constraints of the number of pages means some shortcuts inevitably have to be made. I found the way the strategic challenges were melded with the tactical challenges was done rather well. MG

 

 

 

[stiletto_33853]

On my wants also. I have always enjoyed Ian Beckett's writing.

 

Andy

[paulgranger]

 

       Futile Exercise?: The British Army's Preparations for War 1902-1914 (Wolverhampton Series) Hardcover – 15 Sep 2017

 

         Interesting that this book is listed on Amazon at £29.95- for pre-publication orders- when it comes out in September. From Helion, in the Wolverhampton Series. Our Forum colleague Gibbo's book on oil and the war has just come out in the same series and from the same publisher. Interesting to note that it's list price from Helion is also £29.95-but that immediately on publication there copies available for less than half that. 

   The Gibbo book looks good. Solid piece of work, well organised and researched.  But-seriously and not detracting from his excellent book- just how does the Helion pricing system work?  Wait until the day after publication and its half price????????????

Wait until after publication date is correct. I have bought a lot of Helion books, none directly from them or Amazon, but from other sellers via Amazon, for something like half the Helion price, within two or three days of release. 

[Gibbo]

 

       Futile Exercise?: The British Army's Preparations for War 1902-1914 (Wolverhampton Series) Hardcover – 15 Sep 2017

 

         Interesting that this book is listed on Amazon at £29.95- for pre-publication orders- when it comes out in September. From Helion, in the Wolverhampton Series. Our Forum colleague Gibbo's book on oil and the war has just come out in the same series and from the same publisher. Interesting to note that it's list price from Helion is also £29.95-but that immediately on publication there copies available for less than half that. 

   The Gibbo book looks good. Solid piece of work, well organised and researched.  But-seriously and not detracting from his excellent book- just how does the Helion pricing system work?  Wait until the day after publication and its half price????????????

Thanks for the kind comments on my book.

 

The following is based on observations of the Amazon website rather than any inside knowledge as a Helion author. Looking for a Helion book on Amazon and then selecting 'More buying choices' normally shows Dagwoods Books as being the cheapest. Clicking on its name then produces this page. It appears that Dagwoods is a subsidiary of Helion, presumably set up so they can get the business of price sensitive Amazon customers without having to offer the same low prices to people who go to their own website.

Helion's website is now charging £22.50 for my book and showing the RRP as £25. It's still £29.95 everywhere else I've checked.

[Guest]

35 minutes ago, Gibbo said:

Thanks for the kind comments on my book.

 

The following is based on observations of the Amazon website rather than any inside knowledge as a Helion author. Looking for a Helion book on Amazon and then selecting 'More buying choices' normally shows Dagwoods Books as being the cheapest. Clicking on its name then produces this page. It appears that Dagwoods is a subsidiary of Helion, presumably set up so they can get the business of price sensitive Amazon customers without having to offer the same low prices to people who go to their own website.

Helion's website is now charging £22.50 for my book and showing the RRP as £25. It's still £29.95 everywhere else I've checked.

 

      Thanks Gibbo-  Your book looks pretty good- from what Mr. Google allows me to see.  This is not a criticism of you in any way-Helion's pricing does seem a bit erratic but, alas, it's the nature of modern publishing.-Quick turnover and hit the different pricing markets as quickly as possible.

     As a retired bookseller, I will look to see where else it appears in time- Most author contracts  have some terms about "remaindering" -usually giving the author first go. But many publishers get round this by denying that they are remaindering but merely giving a "high discount" -which brings the cost to the remainder bookseller out at the same. But as I suspect that publication was the main end,then that has been achieved-and an agreeably well-presented book overall. Alas, thoughts of becoming rich beyond the dreams of avarice may have to take second place.

     Presume a review copy will go to "Business History" and similar pubs., not the just the military journals??

 

[Gibbo]

I was emailed by Helion this morning asking if I had any ideas for possible journals other than their usual naval and military ones that might be sent a review copy

I'll suggest Business History. Thanks.

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, Gibbo said:

I was emailed by Helion this morning asking if I had any ideas for possible journals other than their usual naval and military ones that might be sent a review copy

I'll suggest Business History. Thanks.

 

   Economic History Review?   

[charlesmessenger]

On 25/04/2017 at 22:18, QGE said:

If any one has read The British Army and the First World War by Ian Beckett, Timothy Bowman and Mark Connelly I would be interested in hearing your views.

 

I have just purchased it and will start reading it tonight. I have a great respect for all three authors' prior works, so it seemed worth the leap of faith. Any informed views would be very welcome. MG

Martin

 

I have had this on order from Amazon for months, with the publication date continually put back. According to Amazon, it will now be published on 31 May and so how have you managed to get hold of a copy so early?

 

Charles M

[paulgranger]

The Kindle version seems to be available already.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, paulgranger said:

The Kindle version seems to be available already.

 

I have the kindle version.

[charlesmessenger]

Martin, Paul

 

All is now clear. Thanks.

 

Charles M

[bdykstra]

Just ordered the paperback from Amazon. I'm interested to see their wider perspective on the army's preparedness and the learning curve. Unfortunate to hear that there are some factual errors. Hopefully they will get ironed out in a later volume. Regardless, it's good to have a new holistic study of the army among the flurry of work we're getting for the centenary. 

[David Filsell]

Helion pricing may be erratic, but it regularly 'produces 'academic, books at prices other academic publishers fail to even attempt to match in its excellent Wolverhampton series.