Royal Naval Division - Service No. Prefixes

[Ken Lees]

Can anyone tell me what the service number prefixes for RND men signify?

[ARABIS]

Here's a start.

 

K.W. 1 onwards. Men entered in 1st Brigade R.N.D. from Kitchener's Army.

K.X. 1 onwards. Men entered in 2nd Brigade R.N.D. from Kitchener's Army.

R. 1 onwards. Men entered from Army to R.N.D. since May 1916.

Z.W. 1 onwards. Men entered in 1st Brigade R.N.D. from civil life.

Z.X. 1 onwards. Men entered in 2nd Brigade R.N.D. from civil life.

[Lawryleslie]

My Grandfather was in Collingwood Battalion and Mersey Division of RNVR. His official number was MZ 205. The MZ signified Merseyside RNVR. There was also TZ that signified Tyneside Division, CZ signified Clyde Division, SZ  I think is Sussex Division.

Hope this helps.

 

Edited 16 October , 2017 by Lawryleslie

[ARABIS]

Some more.

 

K.P. 1 onwards. Men entered at the Crystal Palace from Kitchener's Army.

P.Z. 1 - 3,000. Men entered at the Crystal Palace from civil life [followed by entrants prefixed Z.P. 1 and onwards].

Z.P. 1 onwards. Men entered at the Crystal Palace from civil life after entrants numbered P.Z. 1 - 3,000.

 

S.Z. 1 onwards. Men entered in the Sussex Division RNVR since 4th September 1914.

W.Z. 1 onwards. Men entered in the Wales Division RNVR opened 11th January 1915.

[horatio2]

One further comment: most of the the above prefixes were not specific to the RND but to the wider RNVR.

[Lawryleslie]

9 hours ago, horatio2 said:

One further comment: most of the the above prefixes were not specific to the RND but to the wider RNVR.

I think that's obvious as not all RNVR ended up in RND. Nobody has said they were specific to the RND, but many of the RND had the prefixes that are described in above posts,  which helps the OP understand what the prefixes signified. 

Edited 17 October , 2017 by Lawryleslie

[Ken Lees]

^{Very grateful for all the comments, chaps. Thank you.}

[michaeldr]

The following list of Divisional prefixes is taken from the NA's page here

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-guides/royal-naval-volunteer-reserve-service-records-1903-1922/

B or BZ	Bristol Division
C or CZ	Clyde Division
KP, KW, KX	Crystal Palace (entered from Kitchener’s Army)
L or LZ	London Division
M or MZ	Mersey Division
PZ	Crystal Palace (entered from civilian life or from the Royal Navy)
R	Royal Naval Division
S or St	Sussex Division
T or TZ	Tyne Division
WZ	Wales Division
Y	On occasion a Y number is found. These numbers seem to have been allocated when men volunteered, to be replaced by a service number when they were called up. If only a Y number is found, the implication is that the man did not actually serve.

 

E & O E

[horatio2]

1 hour ago, Lawryleslie said:

I think that's obvious as not all RNVR ended up in RND. Nobody has said they were specific to the RND, but many of the RND had the prefixes that are described in above posts,  which helps the OP understand what the prefixes signified. 

Not completely "obvious" as the RNVR prefixes listed in Arabis' post #2 were specifically enrolled for service in the RND.

[michaeldr]

14 hours ago, Ken Lees said:

Can anyone tell me what the service number prefixes for RND men signify?

 

In order to get closer to a more complete answer to Ken's above question

then added to the RNVR Divisional prefixes given by the NA 

should be those for the Royal Marines signifying their divisions; respectively Chatham, Plymouth & Portsmouth

Ch

Ch(S)

Ply

Ply(S)

Po

Po(S)

 

The (S) signifying Short Service recruitment for three years or the duration of the war 

 

A part of the RND in 1914 was briefly contributed by the Royal Marine Artillery (prefix: RMA), however these men were withdrawn from the RND after Ostende

 

 

edit to add:

This list may still not be complete, however it is stretching my knowledge already

 

What about the Royal Marine Band who provided stretcher bearers?

Or the sick berth attendants who were (I think) carried on the books of HMS Pembroke?

 

Edited 17 October , 2017 by michaeldr

[horatio2]

 Good points,  Michael. The Drake Battalion stretcher bearers were all RMB/****. And, lest we forget, we should include the recalled reservists of the RNR (RNR seamen, mostly, with 'A', 'B' and 'C' prefixes (suffixes for purists)) and serving RN and RFR ratings, 'K' and 'SS' prefixes. Also many RN/RFR men with no prefixes to their pre-1908 official numbers at all. Should we add the RFR numbers and prefixes? Methinks not

 

The men of the RN Sick Berth Reserve who served at Antwerp with the RND had 'M' prefixes.

 

Nothing 'obvious' about men of the RND!

 

Edited 17 October , 2017 by horatio2

[Lawryleslie]

4 hours ago, horatio2 said:

Not completely "obvious" as the RNVR prefixes listed in Arabis' post #2 were specifically enrolled for service in the RND.

Were the prefixes I quoted specific to RND or not?

Edited 17 October , 2017 by keithmroberts
irrelevant content removed.

[Lawryleslie]

4 hours ago, michaeldr said:

The following list of Divisional prefixes is taken from the NA's page here

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-guides/royal-naval-volunteer-reserve-service-records-1903-1922/

B or BZ	Bristol Division
C or CZ	Clyde Division
KP, KW, KX	Crystal Palace (entered from Kitchener’s Army)
L or LZ	London Division
M or MZ	Mersey Division
PZ	Crystal Palace (entered from civilian life or from the Royal Navy)
R	Royal Naval Division
S or St	Sussex Division
T or TZ	Tyne Division
WZ	Wales Division
Y	On occasion a Y number is found. These numbers seem to have been allocated when men volunteered, to be replaced by a service number when they were called up. If only a Y number is found, the implication is that the man did not actually serve.

 

E & O E

Thanks for this Michael. One prefix I have come across in Collingwood Battalion is a chap called AB John Rogers from Greenock with an official number of GKC/2519. Any ideas on this prefix??  Also many of the enlisted men of the Collingwoods were from Sussex with a prefix SX and not S or St as stated in the NA.

[horatio2]

20 minutes ago, Lawryleslie said:

 One prefix I have come across in Collingwood Battalion is a chap called AB John Rogers from Greenock with an official number of GKC/2519. Any ideas on this prefix??  Also many of the enlisted men of the Collingwoods were from Sussex with a prefix SX and not S or St as stated in the NA.

An error in Geary's "Collingwood Battalion". There is no such prefix to any naval official number. The man he should have recorded is AB John RODGER, Clyde 1/2519 RNVR -  http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D7250737

 

[Lawryleslie]

1 hour ago, horatio2 said:

An error in Geary's "Collingwood Battalion". There is no such prefix to any naval official number. The man he should have recorded is AB John RODGER, Clyde 1/2519 RNVR -  http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D7250737

 

Thank you for this but I understand that the prefix for Clyde would have been shortened to CZ. Where does the 1 come from?

[horatio2]

All pre-war RNVR ratings were attached to numbered companies of their parent Division. Thus, RODGER was Clyde Division, No.1 Company, Official No.2519 (Clyde 1/2519 or C1/2519.

 

RNVR recruiting offices, starting with London and Bristol Divisions on 31 August, were also taking in {duration of the war) volunteers for naval service.  These men were given ‘Z’ service numbers to distinguish them from the existing RNVR ratings, whose service numbers were based on their Company number within their Division, as above.  The start of London and Bristol recruiting was followed by Sussex and Mersey Divisions on 4 and 5 September respectively and by the Clyde and Tyne Divisions on 7 September.  Wales Division opened its ‘Z’ recruiting much later, on 11 January 1915.

[Lawryleslie]

Thanks H2 that's absolutely clear.

[Ken Lees]

All noted. Thank you.

[seaJane]

Where does Deal/****(S) fit in, please?

 

sJ

[horatio2]

Men of the support services of the RND (Divisional Engineers, Divisional Train, Ordnance Company and RM Medical Unit) were administered by the RMLI Depot at Deal and were given Deal/****(S) register numbers. The same applied to men of the RM Labour Corps: the Old Formation had register numbers Deal/8000(S) to Deal/15955(S) and men of the New Formation (1919) were numbered Deal/1(N) to Deal/1424(N).

[seaJane]

That fits, the two numbers I have were for RMMU men.

 

VMT as ever h2.