Pete_C Posted 10 January , 2018 Share Posted 10 January , 2018 4 hours ago, Dave66 said: Great photographs, Long lee Enfield pictured with a P1888 bayonet, common amongst Territorials in the early war period. I have plenty of the bayonets, but the rifle is seriously on my wish list sadly prices for a good one quite high now...never say never! Dave. Yes, Territorials for sure. They're all wearing TF Pattern 1908 Web Equipment. Cartridge Carriers are 45 round capacity with three straight in line pockets / pouches, whereas regulars carried 75 round c/c's with the more familiar five (two over three) pocket arrangement. Great photos indeed, thanks for sharing. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 10 January , 2018 Share Posted 10 January , 2018 (edited) Super photos The rifles shown are CLLEs Charger Loading Lee Enfields, a modification to the Magazine Lee Enfield approved in 1908 after the introduction of the Charger loading system on the SMLE. The MLE required loading one round at a time rather than in 5 round chargers. As Dave says common on the Western Front until early 1916 (persisted later elsewhere). Chris I have a photo from the same photographer probably from the same time - shows the TF pattern Web clearly Edited 10 January , 2018 by 4thGordons Add pic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave66 Posted 10 January , 2018 Share Posted 10 January , 2018 1 hour ago, 4thGordons said: Super photos The rifles shown are CLLEs Charger Loading Lee Enfields, a modification to the Magazine Lee Enfield approved in 1908 after the introduction of the Charger loading system on the SMLE. The MLE required loading one round at a time rather than in 5 round chargers. As Dave says common on the Western Front until early 1916 (persisted later elsewhere). Chris I have a photo from the same photographer probably from the same time - shows the TF pattern Web clearly Another fine photo, Thanks for sharing it. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 11 January , 2018 Share Posted 11 January , 2018 Here are a couple of snaps of one of my CLLEs I also have an IP(India Pattern) CLLE but I can't get at it at the moment. This one was produced in 1902 at Enfield as a LE MkI* and then converted by BSA in 1910 Unit marked to 6 LF which is nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave66 Posted 11 January , 2018 Share Posted 11 January , 2018 Lovely historic piece, still with its long range volley sights...And unit marked as well, a real bonus. These played an important role in the early stages on the Great War so a must for a serious display, alongside the iconic S.M.L.E. Dont see many of these, but when the right one comes along, I'll be taking the plunge, give me an excuse to buy another bayonet!! Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
593jones Posted 11 January , 2018 Share Posted 11 January , 2018 That's a very nice rifle, 4thGordons. A great many years ago when I was shooting I had a CLLE, 1898 Sparkbrook made, converted by LSA but I can't remember the year. A lovely rifle to shoot. I got it at the London Arms Fair when it was held at the Royal Lancaster Hotel in an exchange for an M1 Garand. I had to travel from Yorkshire to London by train and across London on the underground carrying a rifle in a canvas cover. I then did the journey in reverse with the CLLE which was too long for the cover and was carried muzzle down with the butt protruding from the end of the cover. Happy, innocent days, I think I might get some odd looks if I did that now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
593jones Posted 12 January , 2018 Share Posted 12 January , 2018 On 08/01/2018 at 20:30, andy2014 said: Thanks, I was looking to go this years in a few weeks! If you're considering buying anything it's worth remembering that some of the smaller dealers do not accept credit or debit cards. I missed out on a very nice P07 last year because the dealer only took cash. I didn't want to go wandering around Pudsey looking for a cash machine and possibly still missing out on the bayonet so I let it go. I did get one on a later visit, but still regret the one I missed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave66 Posted 12 January , 2018 Share Posted 12 January , 2018 34 minutes ago, 593jones said: If you're considering buying anything it's worth remembering that some of the smaller dealers do not accept credit or debit cards. I missed out on a very nice P07 last year because the dealer only took cash. I didn't want to go wandering around Pudsey looking for a cash machine and possibly still missing out on the bayonet so I let it go. I did get one on a later visit, but still regret the one I missed. Cash is king at fairs and flea markets, Learnt my lesson a while ago when I'd ran out of money at the end of the day then stumbled across a mint p1903 and original scabbard...everything matching. The dealer had just traded it in and no card facilities...painful lesson as never seen anything similar since, so my deepest sympathies but I suppose there's always one we'll remember. Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
593jones Posted 13 January , 2018 Share Posted 13 January , 2018 14 hours ago, Dave66 said: Cash is king at fairs and flea markets, Learnt my lesson a while ago when I'd ran out of money at the end of the day then stumbled across a mint p1903 and original scabbard...everything matching. The dealer had just traded it in and no card facilities...painful lesson as never seen anything similar since, so my deepest sympathies but I suppose there's always one we'll remember. Dave. My sympathy, Dave, I'm looking for a nice P03 myself, haven't come across one yet, but I live in hope. I'll be checking the dealers at Pudsey next month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave66 Posted 13 January , 2018 Share Posted 13 January , 2018 2 hours ago, 593jones said: My sympathy, Dave, I'm looking for a nice P03 myself, haven't come across one yet, but I live in hope. I'll be checking the dealers at Pudsey next month. Best of luck, they are hard to find in decent condition...especially the proper scabbards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy2014 Posted 13 January , 2018 Author Share Posted 13 January , 2018 Great photo`s! Seen these on this site? http://www.real-gun.com/ww1-enfield.html Prices seem 500-600 average anywhere? but not been to a fair yet, be interesting to see what they have to offer and asking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyH Posted 13 January , 2018 Share Posted 13 January , 2018 (edited) The prices seem about right, the 1915 example at £575 is nice, still has the original type of cocking piece. Mike. Edited 13 January , 2018 by MikeyH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy2014 Posted 13 January , 2018 Author Share Posted 13 January , 2018 10 minutes ago, MikeyH said: The prices seem about right, the 1915 example at £575 is nice, still has the original type of cocking piece. Mike. I thought so, and the other one including bayonet, sling and inert rounds was good. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy2014 Posted 13 January , 2018 Author Share Posted 13 January , 2018 2 more for sale... http://www.jaybe-militaria.co.uk/deactivated-lee-enfield-smle-mk3-rifle-enfield-1918-dated-mag-cut-off-matched-numbers-2498-p.asp http://www.jaybe-militaria.co.uk/deactivated--lee-enfield-smle-mk3-enfield-made-1918-dated-matching-snumbers-3356-p.asp so averaging 500-600 with matching numbers. will keep an eye out for the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trenchtrotter Posted 13 January , 2018 Share Posted 13 January , 2018 Im not a fan of the ones at real gun. Don't like wood work on 1915 one. Butt and stock are mismatches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 13 January , 2018 Share Posted 13 January , 2018 Hi Andy, For your top end budget of £700 you could join a full bore club, get you own firearm certificate and purchase a live rifle that you have the pleasure of evaluating accuracy, using an original rifle and the banter of the club members, just a thought? Colin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave66 Posted 13 January , 2018 Share Posted 13 January , 2018 2 hours ago, andy2014 said: I thought so, and the other one including bayonet, sling and inert rounds was good. Andy I'd take my time and purchase separate items correctly dated to match the rifle that's purchased...You'll get a better return on your investment if ever you decided to sell and you'll also be assured they're individually correct to the time period. The rifles in the links look like the standard stuff floating around at the moment, but nothing outstanding and I've seen cheaper at the last few Malvern shows...I tend to look at what's not mentioned in the online ads as I'm getting old and cynical!! regards, Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy2014 Posted 13 January , 2018 Author Share Posted 13 January , 2018 1 minute ago, Dave66 said: I'd take my time and purchase separate items correctly dated to match the rifle that's purchased...You'll get a better return on your investment if ever you decided to sell and you'll also be assured they're individually correct to the time period. The rifles in the links look like the standard stuff floating around at the moment, but nothing outstanding and I've seen cheaper at the last few Malvern shows...I tend to look at what's not mentioned in the online ads as I'm getting old and cynical!! regards, Dave. Sounds good, am not in a rush and see it as an investment, actually not bothered about a live one plus all the gun licences and gun cabinets etc, more interested in collecting several key iconic items as part of my interest and research and to display them for others to appreciate. So taking the time to fully understand exactly what is best to look for and seek out in the future as a unique complete item. Always interested in any detailed opinion what's the best combination or set up to look for? Dates, model no. Bayonet no. Etc... Thanks for replying. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5thBatt Posted 13 January , 2018 Share Posted 13 January , 2018 The relic rifle was more likely to have been dropped in WW2 than WW1 due to one feature (or lack of) lets see if anyone else sees what i see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave66 Posted 13 January , 2018 Share Posted 13 January , 2018 Live one would be great, and probably cheaper for a period piece as the market would be considerably smaller...but so much legislation and display understandably impossible. Been looking for a while but so many I've viewed and handled haven't felt right but I'm probably being fussy...woodwork either too perfect or obviously mismatched or refinished.... period repairs more than acceptable as they show the history but so many just adapted to suit the market. Im looking for pre war to 1915 mk 3 with original magazine cut of plate, P1907 bayonet showing no further inspection stamps and date matching rifle, original early stripper clip with correctly dated rounds and period ww1 dated sling and correct period pull through and oil bottle. 1918 dated versions are great display pieces, usually very good condition and reasonably priced, but I doubt they ever saw any action and are not so valued by collectors. Time and research will prevail. best of luck, Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 13 January , 2018 Share Posted 13 January , 2018 51 minutes ago, 5thBatt said: The relic rifle was more likely to have been dropped in WW2 than WW1 due to one feature (or lack of) lets see if anyone else sees what i see. Go on then.... I'm struggling.... No cut-off slot (makes it a MkIII*) not a MkIII as listed, no volley sights - but does appear to have an windage adjustable rear sight and (maybe) a piling swivel (or the remains of one), still has extra swivel mount on front of trigger guard rather than wire loop, but inletted for unit disc (missing) earlier style cocking piece and milled rear sight protectors -- so hybrid features..... production from late 1915 on WWI would seem to fit to me. Don't see anything that definitively marks it as WWII or even strongly suggest that - what am I missing? Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5thBatt Posted 13 January , 2018 Share Posted 13 January , 2018 4th, i thought you at least would see it! To me that looks like a post 20's 'straight line' forend ie no swell by the outer band. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
593jones Posted 13 January , 2018 Share Posted 13 January , 2018 Have to say I'm with Chris here, it's completely passed me by. The only thing (feature) I can see is that there is a lack of appears to be the safety catch, but since I doubt they were removed in WWII I don't think that's what you mean. Come on, put us out of our misery! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 13 January , 2018 Share Posted 13 January , 2018 40 minutes ago, 5thBatt said: 4th, i thought you at least would see it! To me that looks like a post 20's 'straight line' forend ie no swell by the outer band. Hmmmm, OK I see what you mean but its really difficult to tell definitively from these pics (3/4 angled) and I think there is quite a bit of variation in forend profiles (between manufactures etc) even without aging/damage in evidence here. You could be correct though..... Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5thBatt Posted 14 January , 2018 Share Posted 14 January , 2018 4th, the swell along the bottom not the side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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