Gordon Caldecott Posted 3 January , 2005 Share Posted 3 January , 2005 Hi, On the local War Memorial (St Asaph, North Wales), is the name of Sgt William George 4th Btn KRRC DCM MM, buried in Baghdad North Gate Cemetery. I was hoping that someone might be able to tell me how he won his DCM or MM, or the Gazette Dates for these awards? Gordon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoch beard Posted 3 January , 2005 Share Posted 3 January , 2005 i checked the k.r.r.c. in walker's list of d.c.m. recipients and couldn't find him. enoch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris.wight Posted 3 January , 2005 Share Posted 3 January , 2005 There is a listing for "George, W." and the DCM. Unfortunately the London Gazette has been "cranky" the last couple of days and the page showing the listing is not coming up. I'll look again tomorrow when hopefully it is working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Caldecott Posted 4 January , 2005 Author Share Posted 4 January , 2005 Enoch, that is interesting, the CWGC give him these awards as does the memorial, I wonder?? Does it give lists of MM winners? Chris, cheers for that it might end the mystery!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoch beard Posted 4 January , 2005 Share Posted 4 January , 2005 walkers lists only dcm winners,11024 sgt william george of krrc in the soldiers died cd rom does not list his dcm or mm enoch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Caldecott Posted 4 January , 2005 Author Share Posted 4 January , 2005 That is interesting and poses all sorts of questions. Does anyone know how to access the new MIC index on the net, maybe that would confirm or deny whether he is entitled to the DCM & MM, I would also be interested to know if he is entitled to a Star or not, and where he first served. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kpm Posted 4 January , 2005 Share Posted 4 January , 2005 Hi Gordon, This is the link page:- http://www.documentsonline.nationalarchive...y=*&queryType=1 Ian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris.wight Posted 5 January , 2005 Share Posted 5 January , 2005 Gordon, the London Gazette site is finally working again so I was able to look at the page for Sjt. George. It turns out the award listed wasn't for the DCM but for the MM. The MM was awarded for bravery in the defence of Kut-al-Amarah. Unfortunately I wasn't able to find the DCM listing. You can see the page here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Reed Posted 5 January , 2005 Share Posted 5 January , 2005 I have the KRRC chronicles for WW1 and will see if there is anymention of him and his decorations in them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Caldecott Posted 6 January , 2005 Author Share Posted 6 January , 2005 Cheers Guys, for all you assistance with this topic. Unless Paul can come up with something it would appear that the War Memorial & CWGC are in correct. But at least I`ve been able to discover how he won his MM. Does anyone know how to access this new MIC website, so I can find out when and were he first served? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris.wight Posted 6 January , 2005 Share Posted 6 January , 2005 Gordon, this is the page you are looking for at the National Archives, link. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Reed Posted 6 January , 2005 Share Posted 6 January , 2005 I can't find him in the KRRC Chronicles. But this is an odd one - 4th KRRC did not take part in the Mespot campaign. He must have been attached to another unit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Caldecott Posted 7 January , 2005 Author Share Posted 7 January , 2005 Cheer Guys, I don`t suppose we`ll ever know for sure, unless his service papers till survive, or I can dig something out of the local paper?? I don`t suppose any one has ever seen his medals anywhere? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Reed Posted 7 January , 2005 Share Posted 7 January , 2005 Did you download his MIC? It would be interesting to know what that said. I presume you must be researching this man or have something on him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Caldecott Posted 8 January , 2005 Author Share Posted 8 January , 2005 Hi Paul, Will have a look at his MIC, as it would be interesting to see what it says. I`m just scratching about on the surface really, as I have no medals for him. But I walk past the war memorial every day, and am curious to see what I can find out about him. The street were he used to live is still there, but I have been unable so far to find out which number he lived at. Should I find anything out about him, I`ll be sure to post my finding on the site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Caldecott Posted 8 January , 2005 Author Share Posted 8 January , 2005 Right now I`m totally confused.......... I`ve had a look on the MIC site, and could find no Sgt W George`s in the KRRC, however, I did find one Sgt William George Labour Corps with the DCM & MM, but it also said Women`s Service???? Anyone any idea what that means??? WO372/23. Ignoring the women`s service bit, I`m assuming that he won his MM with the KRRC, then transfered to the Labour Corps, won the DCM, and transfered back, in order to die on the 27/11/16 with the 4th Btn KRRC and be buried in Baghdad??? A very strange story, I think you`ll agree?!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Reed Posted 8 January , 2005 Share Posted 8 January , 2005 Did you download his MIC? If so, perhaps you could post it here and we could then have a look at it? Might be able to work something out; I wonder where the 4th KRRC connection comes in, for, as said before, they did not serve in Mespot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris.wight Posted 8 January , 2005 Share Posted 8 January , 2005 My curiousity got the better of me so I downloaded his MIC. Looking at it only brings up more questions. There should be some mention of his MM and of his date of death. Is this a case of a split MIC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Soul Posted 8 January , 2005 Share Posted 8 January , 2005 The 4th Bn KRRC (and 3rd) were in India at the outbreak of war. Perhaps he was ill and could not return to the UK with the rest of the battalion and then simply got either tagged on or transferred to the Poona Division/Townsend's force as a "stray" when this was being formed ? Just one thing - he isn't buried at Baghdad (North Gate) War Cemetery: he is commemorated there - on the Angora (Ankara) Memorial. i.e. he must have been captured at Ku-al-Amara and died in captivity. Andy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Reed Posted 8 January , 2005 Share Posted 8 January , 2005 He does have two MICs. If you type his number and King's Royal Rifle Corps into the Other and Corps fields respectively it throws them up - along with another KRRC soldier with the same number but different name! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris.wight Posted 8 January , 2005 Share Posted 8 January , 2005 Thanks for pointing that out, Paul. Anyway, I went and spent my MIC budget for the year and downloaded the other card. It confirms the MM but it seems the DCM mention is incorrect. Perhaps confusion with the man mentioned by Gordon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Reed Posted 8 January , 2005 Share Posted 8 January , 2005 Very interesting; perhaps it was a Boer War DCM? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris.wight Posted 9 January , 2005 Share Posted 9 January , 2005 Paul, I thought that was possible but found he was 26 when he died in 1916. Some checking the previous day in the London Gazette, gave me several issues to check re Kut awards. I finally came across his DCM announcement in Issue 30424, 12 December, 1917. However he had a different serial number and was part of S & M (?). Here's the link to the London Gazette, here. I then entered his name and serial number into the MIC search and came up with one showing he had been with a Signals Company. So the "S" must be signals but what is the "M"? Would there be a citation given in a later issue of the London Gazette? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoch beard Posted 9 January , 2005 Share Posted 9 January , 2005 i would say this is the man,the gazette states he comes from st. asaph. chris s &m stands for sappers and miners, he was probably attached to this unit probably another kut or prisioner of war award because there is no citation. enoch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Reed Posted 9 January , 2005 Share Posted 9 January , 2005 Looks like you've solved it: and it all makes sense because S&M is indeed Sappers and Miners, an Indian Army unit, which would have been in Mespot and at Kut. Great work! And just goes to show how elusive some of these characters can be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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