Ranks of the French Army in 1914

[dansparky]

What were the ranks of the principal actors within the French Army in 1914?

 

Commander-In-Chief, Generalissimo Joffre not yet Marshal of France.

General de DivisionGeneral de Division Charles Lanrezac  equivilent Major-General?

 

General de Division Andre Sordet

 

General D’ Amande’s Is this right?

 

Edited 11 March , 2018 by dansparky

[Uncle George]

I think I'm right in saying that 'Marshal of France' was not a rank, but an honorific. 

[geraint]

Generalissimo? Doesn't sound like a French rank to me. More Italian. Wasn't Mussolini refered to as 'generalissimo?

[healdav]

1 hour ago, geraint said:

Generalissimo? Doesn't sound like a French rank to me. More Italian. Wasn't Mussolini refered to as 'generalissimo?

Definitely not French (not even the British French).

[Ron Clifton]

5 hours ago, Uncle George said:

I think I'm right in saying that 'Marshal of France' was not a rank, but an honorific. 

Yes. It was conferred on Joffre after he was replaced by Nivelle at the end of 1916.

 

"Generalissimo" was never a French Army rank. It was the title given to General Foch after the Doullens Conference in March 1918, when he was placed in command of all Allied troops on the Western Front.

 

General Joffre's rank in 1914 was "General, Member of the Superior War Council" and his appointment was "General-in-Chief of the Armies of the North and North-East."

 

The French equivalent of Becke's Orders of Battle is unhelpful in that all the commanders are referred to as "General X", with the addition of a Christian name if there was more than one with the same surname.

 

Ron

[SiegeGunner]

Didn't the British refer to Foch as Generalissimo (French 'Généralissime') of the Allied Forces from March 1918.?  Not a rank, though, but an informal description of his appointment as 'Supreme Commander-in-Chief'.

[Uncle George]

Generalissimo - that was Franco, was it not.

 

Guest: "Where's the boss? The Generalissimo?"

 

Manuel: "In Madrid!"

Edited 12 March , 2018 by Uncle George

[geraint]

Well!!!

You live and learn. Ta Ron, Mick and George.

[Uncle George]

By coincidence I came across the attached today. It is from 'Foch - the Winner of the War' (1920) by Raymond Recouly. He is writing of the  30th of August, 1914:

 

https://archive.org/stream/fochwinnerofwar01reco#page/n11/mode/2up

 

[CROONAERT]

On ‎11‎/‎03‎/‎2018 at 23:36, dansparky said:

General de Division... ... equivilent Major-General?

 

 

Général de division is, indeed an equivalent to a (British) Major General.

 

...However... not always (it can get a bit confusing) ... the higher 'ranks' of général de corps d'Armée and général d'Armée were actually titles of appointment with (most) of these actually holding the rank of général de division. Higher than this is a général de groupe d'Armées.

 

Maréchal de France isn't actually a rank either... it's a distinction, an honourary title of sorts. Généralissime is a role and not a rank. Basically it's the French Army equivalent of what the Mafia would refer to as the Capo di tutti capi - the 'boss of bosses'!

 

Dave

[dansparky]

thanks for that info.  did the ranks of the higher 'ranks' of général de corps d'Armée and général d'Armée come after 1914?

[CROONAERT]

11 hours ago, dansparky said:

thanks for that info.  did the ranks of the higher 'ranks' of général de corps d'Armée and général d'Armée come after 1914?

 

No... they had existed since the reforms following the Franco-German War of 1870-71 (circa 1872/3) but, as I said, they were not 'ranks' (they only became ranks in 1939) and were simply appointments of seniority... sometimes the title was used and sometimes it wasn't!   Général de division was the highest French Army 'rank' in August 1914.

 

Joffre, in 1914, was a général de division ... and so were his immediate subordinates.    

Foch, in 1914, was a général de division ... and so were his immediate superiors.    

de Castelnau, in 1914, was a général de division ... and so were his immediate subordinates AND superior!   

 

( I did say it can be a bit confusing! )

 

Dave.

Edited 14 March , 2018 by CROONAERT

[dansparky]

Thanks, David.  Very strange set up to have had the upper echelons effectively at the same rank.

[2ndCMR]

On 3/14/2018 at 15:31, dansparky said:

Thanks, David.  Very strange set up to have had the upper echelons effectively at the same rank.

The British Army had a very similar system of ranks vs. appointments.