laughton Posted 31 August , 2019 Author Share Posted 31 August , 2019 (edited) On 11/06/2018 at 06:52, laughton said: Turns out there were five (5) CSM killed in France, only one of which has a known burial location: Just to update that comment, there was a 6th Company Sergeant Major that was wounded in action, taken prisoner and later died in the POW camp. That was: CSM Frederick Philipp Chapman #PO/11934, died 16 May 1917 at Lazarette Tournai. He died in a Prison Camp at Tournai 37.O.23 and is listed as died in Belgium. Buired in, later exhumed from, the Tournai Communal Cemetery Extension 37.O.34. He was taken at Gavrelle on 28 April 1917 (ICRC 13652) and died of wounds. He has a lot of cards in multiple IRCR listings, including these: https://grandeguerre.icrc.org/en/File/Details/2544955/3/2/ https://grandeguerre.icrc.org/en/File/Details/1433592/3/2/ https://grandeguerre.icrc.org/en/File/Details/1722644/3/2/ (but I don;t see him on form) Edited 31 August , 2019 by laughton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laughton Posted 15 December , 2019 Author Share Posted 15 December , 2019 (edited) Just to link this topic, now in December 2019, as one of the CSM of the RMLI appeared in the Canadian Cemetery No. 2 as an unknown Sergeant Major (of which there are none). That was split off into a separate topic: Canadian Cemetery No. 2 Case #1: R.M.L.I. Company Sergeant Major Quote COG-BR 1979603 - A Sergeant Major of the Royal Marine Light Infantry at 51b.B.30.b.45.80 which places us in the Oppy-Gavrelle sector northeast of Arras. From previous cases, we know the 1st RMLI there on 27 April 1917 (war diary page 60 of 178) as well as the 2nd RMLI (war diary page 132 of 333). There are two (2) Company Sergeant Majors of the 2nd Royal Marine Light Infantry missing at that time, one on the 26th when the village was heavily shelled and the second on the 28th when they were detailed to take the windmill northeast of Gavrelle. We mentioned both these men in the prior topic (post #17) that dealt with the misplaced RMLI men in the Serre Road Cemetery. Reference is made to Blumberg's text on the "Sea Soldiers" (page 327). Both @michaeldr and @horatio2 contributed excellent detail to that topic and may have more to say here. It will be necessary to see if we can separate CSM Campbell on the 26th, perhaps still in the village (where remains located), from CSM Milne who would have been lost in the attack on the 28th and perhaps to the northeast of the village (51b.C.19.d windmill area). Perhaps the other CSM will appear in this cemetery as well! Amazing how these puzzle cases soon become so intertwined! Edited 16 December , 2019 by laughton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lestat51 Posted 15 September , 2022 Share Posted 15 September , 2022 (edited) Hello gentlemen, First of all, please forgive me for my incorrect english, it's not my native language but I'm trying do make an effort. I registered here because I own the pair binoculars of R.C. ROGERS, and my research on internet led me to this thread, that I tried to read completely but I did not unterstand everything. I would like to be able to find as much imformation as possible about this man, and why not find his burial place and his possible descendants. Could you guide me in my research ? Is there a website where I can find information about a soldier fallen during the great war ? Somes pics of the binoculars : We can read : CH/15594, Sgt R. C. ROGERS, RM for ROYAL Marine Thank you in advance for your help. Edited 15 September , 2022 by Lestat51 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dickaren Posted 15 September , 2022 Share Posted 15 September , 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, Lestat51 said: Hello gentlemen, First of all, please forgive me for my incorrect english, it's not my native language but I'm trying do make an effort. I registered here because I own the pair binoculars of R.C. ROGERS, and my research on internet led me to this thread, that I tried to read completely but I did not unterstand everything. I would like to be able to find as much imformation as possible about this man, and why not find his burial place and his possible descendants. Could you guide me in my research ? Is there a website where I can find information about a soldier fallen during the great war ? Somes pics of the binoculars : We can read : CH/15594, Sgt R. C. ROGERS, RM for ROYAL Marine Thank you in advance for your help. @Lestat51 According to CWGC he was Company Sergeant Major and died 26th March 1918 an remembered on the Arras Memorial to the missing. His name was Reginald Clarence. He was a military medal winner. Richard Edited 15 September , 2022 by dickaren Typo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matlock1418 Posted 15 September , 2022 Share Posted 15 September , 2022 6 hours ago, Lestat51 said: Hello gentlemen, First of all, please forgive me for my incorrect english, it's not my native language but I'm trying do make an effort. I registered here because I own the pair binoculars of R.C. ROGERS, and my research on internet led me to this thread, that I tried to read completely but I did not unterstand everything. I would like to be able to find as much imformation as possible about this man, and why not find his burial place and his possible descendants. Could you guide me in my research ? Is there a website where I can find information about a soldier fallen during the great war ? Welcome to GWF - we are pleased you have joined us. Thank you for showing us your pictures of Warrant Officer, Second Class/Company Serjeant Major Reginald Clarance ROGERS' binoculars Here is the link for his CWGC page https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/1637595/reginald-clarence-rogers His widow, Mabel Grace Annie ROGERS [b. 5-1-1891] made a successful widow's pension claim for herself under Article 11 of the Royal Warrant on pensions [No children appear claimed for - I suspect there were perhaps none.]. Image thanks to WFA/Fold3 It was quite common to wait six months after a man's death before a pension was paid [it gave the Minisry of Pensions time to calculate it, etc.] - in the meantime a usually higher Separation Allowance would have been paid to her. 18 shillings and 9 pence per week was paid from 26-9-18 [this was the rate applicable to his rank and her age, <45 years - this amount would be paid/very gradually increased over time so long as she was not remarried, in which case a final remarriage bounty would be paid, nor dead - there is no sign on the pension cards of either event up to 5/9/1925] The £5 Grant was for her funeral expenses such as potentially placing an obituary in a local newspaper, etc. Several addresses are shown - a further cards show an additional [later, c. 1922?] address = Watermill Cottage, College Road, Marsgate [using this address for a web search will at present likely bring up a modern photograph for a quite recent sale of the property] It rather looks like his widow did not remarry and it rather looks like she died in approximately September/October-December 1959 - Death registered: Surname First name(s) Age District Vol Page Deaths Dec 1959 (>99%) ROGERS Mabel G A 69 Thanet 5b 756 [from FreeBMD] M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matlock1418 Posted 15 September , 2022 Share Posted 15 September , 2022 Reginald Clarance ROGERS, 15594 Royal Marines: Registers of Service: https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D7806589 [Details of his service and likely his basic war medal entitlement] Medal card of Rogers, R C: https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D6214433 [for his Military Medal] You can obtain these items from The National Archives - Currently free to download [once free registration has been completed] Military Medal: Announced in the London Gazette, His Majesty the KING has been graciously pleased to award the Military Medal for bravery in the Field to the undermentioned Non-Commissioned Officersand Men:— ... Ch.15594 Sjt. (actg. Col./Sjt.) R. C. Rogers, R.M.L.I. https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/30172/supplement/6835 Other GWF Members may possibly be able to suggest when and where his actions earned him his MM - perhaps @Ivor Anderson @horatio2 ??? M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivor Anderson Posted 16 September , 2022 Share Posted 16 September , 2022 The London Gazette of 9th July 1917 listed MMs awarded for actions during the Battle of Arras and Vimy Ridge in April-May 1917. Thanks to Matlock for the MM index card link - The National Archives' reference WO 372/23/161131 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivor Anderson Posted 16 September , 2022 Share Posted 16 September , 2022 (edited) Matlock's helpful service record link lets us see that he was born 18 March 1889 in Wye in Kent and enlisted on 22 September 1906 aged 17.5. He went to France with Chatham Division, but was with the Victory RM Brigade when he won his MM around April 1917, and was later killed on 26 March 1918. This may have been part of 63rd Royal Naval Division from 1916? https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C4556259 Edited 16 September , 2022 by Ivor Anderson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horatio2 Posted 16 September , 2022 Share Posted 16 September , 2022 (edited) His MM was awarded as a Colour Sergeant for the RND actions at Gavrelle in late April 1917. Edited 16 September , 2022 by horatio2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivor Anderson Posted 16 September , 2022 Share Posted 16 September , 2022 Thanks Horatio. What was 'Victory' Royal Marine Brigade? I cannot find it named as a Brigade within the 63rd RN Division. Another MIC e.g.: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KizmeRD Posted 16 September , 2022 Share Posted 16 September , 2022 VICTORY was his Accounting Base (Portsmouth), for although the 63rd (Royal Naval) Division came under the operational control of the Army - Administration (pay, postings, promotions etc.) was still a matter for the Navy. MB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horatio2 Posted 16 September , 2022 Share Posted 16 September , 2022 (edited) 6 hours ago, Ivor Anderson said: I cannot find it named as a Brigade within the 63rd RN Division. When the RND originally formed in August 1914 it comprised three brigades, two naval (RN) brigades and a third brigade entitled 3rd (RM) Brigade. In August 1915, at Gallipoli, the four marine battalions of the 3rd (RM) Brigade were amalgamated into two 'RMLI' battalions. These were moved into the 2nd (RN) Brigade and the 3rd (RM) Brigade sceased to exist after one year in being as a fighting brigade at Antwerp and Gallipoli. However, the RMLI drafters continued, throughout the war years, to use the term"VICTORY [for] RM Brigade" as the drafting destination in ADM 159 ledger records for men joining the RND. Edited 16 September , 2022 by horatio2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horatio2 Posted 16 September , 2022 Share Posted 16 September , 2022 His WW1 campaign medals were the Victory Medal (V), the British War Medal (B) and the 1914 Star and Clasp. The V and B medals were claimed by and issued to his widow post-war. His 1914 Star and Clasp thereto were earned at Ostend, Dunkirk and Antwerp in September and October 1914. The 1914 Star was issued to his widow, Mrs MGA ROGERS, on 27 October 1919. However, although he was entitled to the Clasp, this does not appear on the RM Medal Roll and the clasp was never claimed or issued. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelPack Posted 16 September , 2022 Share Posted 16 September , 2022 Does anybody know if a final decision has been made on Richard's submission yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith_history_buff Posted 16 September , 2022 Share Posted 16 September , 2022 On 15/09/2022 at 14:24, Lestat51 said: Hello gentlemen, First of all, please forgive me for my incorrect english, it's not my native language but I'm trying do make an effort. I registered here because I own the pair binoculars of R.C. ROGERS, and my research on internet led me to this thread, that I tried to read completely but I did not unterstand everything. I would like to be able to find as much imformation as possible about this man, and why not find his burial place and his possible descendants. Could you guide me in my research ? Is there a website where I can find information about a soldier fallen during the great war ? Somes pics of the binoculars : We can read : CH/15594, Sgt R. C. ROGERS, RM for ROYAL Marine Thank you in advance for your help. Here's the link to a good publication about the (corps of) Royal Marines On 19/08/2019 at 12:27, laughton said: [Blumberg's Britain's Sea Soldiers] Yahoo! That book is available on-line through the HathiTrust. You can read it here: (thanks for that link! @michaeldr ) https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=wu.89100004282&view=1up&seq=396 Chapter 26 (starting page 311) deals with the R.M.L.I. Battalions in France. It also deals with Ypres 1917 (page 322). .......... All in all a fascinating read and a continuing learning experience. If you are feeling brave, there is the war diary (journal des marches et operations), typically written in pencil. I have taken this from Ivor's post 15 hours agohttps://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C4556259 This man's fiche matricule militaire is available free of charge from The National Archives UK. (I think you have the ability to download as many as 100 different documents every month. Prior to COVID, you had to pay £3.50 for each digitised record.)Royal Marines: Registers of Service: https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D7806589 The pertinent parts of his record for the 1914-18 war have been reproduced by Ivor, in the same post where the war diary link came from. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lestat51 Posted 17 September , 2022 Share Posted 17 September , 2022 Hello, Thank you all for your help, it's more than I expected ! I begin to reconstruct little by little the puzzle of his life. I am now going to try to reconstitute his career a little during the war, and the battles in which he took part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lestat51 Posted 17 September , 2022 Share Posted 17 September , 2022 If I understand correctly, he is burried in an "unknown soldier" grave ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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