Any help to identify bayonet please

[Steve1871]

A friend of mine just got 2 bayonets

one he thinks is Turkish? I suggest Turkish mod of Gras for Y1903, he say noCould be something from Great War????

 

Other looks to be an old Brit Pat. 1875 Voldnteer, he say no, has few of those, he say this one is longer , sorry it pre war

 

Any insights on either would be great, thank you. Steve

[Steve1871]

The first one is British and a Quill back, but nothing like the P55, could it have been made for another country for the war?

[AndyBsk]

Left one is unreworked turkish M1903 with quillback. 

[Steve1871]

Hey Andy, what book did you find that please? I know the Turkish 1903, but never heard of a quillback variant ?

[AndyBsk]

M1903 is only with quillback as its a copy german of S98, with handle that could be attached on M90/93/03 turkish rifle, so high placed barell ring and locking dimmension when i remember correctly 101mm. No other country has similar ball end hook of crossguard, but the majority of bayonets were shortened and reworked post 1935. by shortage is the quilback end of blade removed. Should be commented as here is expert about Turk bayonets, "Trajan" .

https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/30003269

Edited 2 November , 2019 by AndyBsk

[Steve1871]

Thank’s Andy, you are correct. I really like the bayonet. If I ever find one, I would have to get the M.90 Rifle to stick on the end of it

 

On Turk’s, I got an M87 short rifle  , no bayonet for it yet.   M87, one those Bulgarian single shot/Steyr 8mm Conv.

and an exelent M93 with the Mag. Cut off with a nice 90/93 bayonet for it

[OLD ROBIN HOOD]

Greetings from Sherwood Forest

The bayonet on the right  looks like a British M 1875 trials bayonet for the Martini Henry Rifle.

See page 378 no 778 of " The Bayonet Book " by Watts & White.

It quite rare , I don't have one.

                                                 Old Robin Hood.

[Dave66]

25 minutes ago, OLD ROBIN HOOD said:

Greetings from Sherwood Forest

The bayonet on the right  looks like a British M 1875 trials bayonet for the Martini Henry Rifle.

See page 378 no 778 of " The Bayonet Book " by Watts & White.

It quite rare , I don't have one.

                                                 Old Robin Hood.

Saw this post early on, and looked through Skennerton British and commonwealth bayonets....came to the same conclusion yet this one has the spring on the wrong side!!

left handed bayonet??

image below from Skennerton B&CB.

 

Certainly a British scabbard looking at the staples as opposed to rivets.

 

Dave.

 

Edited 2 November , 2019 by Dave66

[OLD ROBIN HOOD]

Greetings From Sherwood ( again )

Dave , Yes you are right . I checked Watts & White again and found another contender. Page 380 no 786

" Martini Sawback ,second type blade approved 28th May 1875 . This specimen modified in 1881 with a new hilt

and crossguard for the Snider carbine". This one looks better

 

                                                              Old Robin Hood

[Dave66]

4 minutes ago, OLD ROBIN HOOD said:

Greetings From Sherwood ( again )

Dave , Yes you are right . I checked Watts & White again and found another contender. Page 380 no 786

" Martini Sawback ,second type blade approved 28th May 1875 . This specimen modified in 1881 with a new hilt

and crossguard for the Snider carbine". This one looks better

 

                                                              Old Robin Hood

It’s certainly of that ilk Robin,

only have Skennerton so will check again in the morning, but either way a rare beast.

 

From Pershore to Sherwood Forest...night night.

 

Dave.

[Steve1871]

The problem with the MARTINI is the muzzle ring, the martini's had a higher ser barrel-muzzle ring, looking at my friends pic, the ring is too low for martini, ,my friend say send me more pics

[OLD ROBIN HOOD]

Greetings from a very damp Sherwood .

 

Hi Steve, as I said in my last post the bayonet that your friend has may have started life as an 1875 Martini bayonet

but the one illustrated in "The Bayonet Book" was modified in 1881 to fit the Snider Carbine.  Below is the picture from the book.

The Snider, which was actually invented by an American, was in .577 calibre and was the weapon that preceded the Martini.

 

                                                      Old Robin Hood

 

 

[JMB1943]

Steve,

 

Have your friend put some numbers, i.e. dimensions, on it!

Oh, and while he has it, how about photos of the ricasso markings ?

Does it have ANY markings?

Regards,

JMB

Edited 3 November , 2019 by JMB1943
add info

[trajan]

On 02/11/2019 at 21:35, AndyBsk said:

M1903 is only with quillback as its a copy german of S98, with handle that could be attached on M90/93/03 turkish rifle, so high placed barell ring and locking dimmension when i remember correctly 101mm. No other country has similar ball end hook of crossguard, but the majority of bayonets were shortened and reworked post 1935. by shortage is the quilback end of blade removed. Should be commented as here is expert about Turk bayonets, "Trajan" .

https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/30003269

 

Thanks for the compliment Andy, although I should respond by saying I have never come across anyone else with as wide a knowledge of European (and other!) bayonets as yourself!

 

It is indeed a Turkish M.1903, and as Andy indicates, almost a direct copy of the S.98, except for some minor and major details (and no sawback versions!). Many of these bayonets were shortened to become Turkish M1913's, with the same blade width, others being shortened at some point after WW1 for use by the Turkish Republican army. The ricasso will have the German makers mark - in Osmanli script - and date -  in the Rumi calendar. Some still have serial marks on the crossguards.

Julian