William Carruthers

[George Rayner]

That's where I drop out! I know they are uniforms!

 

George

[Stebie9173]

There are not vast amounts of identifiers on the photograph but here is what I can see:

 

• Far left with moustache - short shoulder title, pale medal ribbon probably a 1914 Star or 1914-15 Star. These were issued first before the British War Medal and Victory Medal "pair" in the early 1920s
• Next left - Two medal ribbons. Again pale ribbon probably the 1914 or 1914-15 Star; ribbon to left as we look will be either gallantry medal or earlier issued medal such as the Queen's South Africa - the medal "colour" is consistent with how the QSA appears on photographs of the time; no visible shoulder titles; a lanyard as usually worn by troops involved with horses; four long service chevrons denote 16 years of Good Conduct service  - quoting one of our forum experts on these things "chevrons denote 2, 5, 12, and 16 minimum years Good Conduct".
• Second right - again a 1914 or 1914-15 Star medal ribbon; he is not wearing a shoulder title for some reason.

 

 

Steve.

 

[Geoff786]

Incredible. And thank you 🙏 

[mancpal]

The seated chap on the right whilst wearing civilian clothes from the waist up appears to be wearing puttees. There is certainly something around his right leg below the knee, I did wonder if perhaps he was an amputee and the band around his upper calf had something to with tidying up his trouser leg. Two things mess up my amputee theory. Firstly I think I can make out 'strapping' on his other leg and secondly had he been a wartime disabled soldier I would expect to see an SWB on his lapel.

If they are puttees I can't remember seeing them combined with a suit before and wonder why.

 

Simon

[corisande]

Vis a vis the others in the photo - If anyone has time to research them , the male members of the family were all born in the same place in Fermanagh to the same parents. (I have not checked deaths). And the chances are that it is a family photo and these are his brothers.

 

Remember there was no conscription in Ireland so all need not have joined the forces

 

And remember that they are more likely to be Carrothers than Carruthers  (but still might be the latter)

 

William born 15/7/1881 (the man in question here)

James born 7/8/1882

John Thomas born 14/1/1885

George born 7/3/1887

Samuel born 18/6/1892

Edited 12 April , 2020 by corisande

[corisande]

There is a pension card for John Thomas Carruthers

 

Name:	John Thomas Carruthers
Rank:	Gnr
Record Type:	Disability
Birth Date:	1884
Residence Place:	Belfast
Military Service Region:	Northern Ireland, Ireland
Discharge Date:	3 Feb 1919
Service Number:	227451
Corps, Regiment or Unit:	R. G. A.

[corisande]

And this would seem to be James Carrothers. He does not seem to have served in South Africa

 

Name:	James Carrothers
Gender:	Male
Marital status:	Single
Age:	17
Birth Date:	abt 1882
Birth Place:	Derryvullen, Lisbellaw, Fermanagh, Ireland
Attestation Date:	11 Nov 1899
Attestation Place:	Lisbellaw, Ireland
Regiment:	27th Foot (Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers)
Service Number:	1576

 

[Geoff786]

I think your onto it. Within the family today there are namesakes of all below except George. But your info seems to bring it closer than I have been before. After you all posted this info/trail I went on civil records and I see the births as noted. I also see they might of moved to Belfast in 1901 and are possibly captured in the census. I am sure that each person leaves some trail /facts and it’s just conversations like these that open it up. 

[Geoff786]

Hi guys, if you recall you helped me with a photo I had posted in April. Well a little digging and there is one specific insight I need some help on understanding . I believe John Thomas Carrothers is the gentlemen to the right in the photo. He is listed as a “Para” in the war medals. I think you can actually see  his Paralysis in his left leg. I see he was discharged in 1919, what do the rest of the codes mean in the photo / document i looked it up but nothing comes up John Thomas Carrothers” 

[PRC]

16 minutes ago, Geoff786 said:

He is listed as a “Para” in the war medals. I think you can actually see  his Paralysis in his left leg. I see he was discharged in 1919, what do the rest of the codes mean in the photo / document

 

In both lines the reference to “Para” means Paragraph, not Paralysis. These are references to the relevant regulations regarding early termination of Service.

 

Thus “Para. 392 (xvi) K.R” in full would be Kings Regulations Paragraph 392 item 16.

In essence that says "No longer physically fit to serve".

The other reference may refer more generally to the process, or more narrowly to circumstances of those like John Carrothers, but it won’t be specifically about him. As you can see for the 13 names on the page, the Para 2 citation occurs against all of them.

 

The Silver War Badge Roll that you have posted does however add that he had seen no overseas service in his 4 months in the Army.

 

regards,

Peter

[Geoff786]

Hi guys, if you recall you helped me with a photo I had posted in April. Well a little digging and there is one specific insight I need some help on understanding . I believe John Thomas Carrothers is the gentlemen to the right in the photo. He is listed as a “Para” in the war medals. I think you can actually see  his Paralysis in his left leg. I see he was discharged in 1919, what do the rest of the codes mean in the photo ?

Hi Peter , shows I know nothing about this and asking experienced people like you makes it worth while.  Geoff