James Henry Wheatcroft - 1037 - 11th Battalion East Yorkshire (Hull Tradesmen)

[Fishyfins]

Hello everyone!
I am currently researching the war story of my great grandfather James Henry Wheatcroft. We have quite a bit of information and documents on him already, but i just wanted to clarify/get opinions on a few things if i may?
We know from his records that he initially served in the 11th Battalion East Yorks (Hull Tradesmen), and first entered a theatre of war on the 25th Dec 1915 in Egypt as part of the MEF. We also have a record that shows he was wounded and diagnosed with "Shell Shock" on the 3th May 1916. Reading the war diary of the 11th Battalion, there was an entry from the 2nd May that said 4 privates were wounded by a mortar explosion, so we assume he must be one of these? He was transferred back to England, and was in a hospital in Eastbourne on the 30th May.

Here, there is a gap in the records. He must have returned to the front line, as he was injured again in late December 1916, and admitted to a hospital in Etaples, France, before again being sent back to England with a "debility". He must have then decided stay at home for a while as he got married in his home city in June 1917.

Following this, he joined the RFC in November 1917 as an engineer (he was a coppersmith by trade), and transferred to the RAF when it was created in 1918.

Now, my query is this: On the document that lists his injuries and hospital admissions, as well as RFC/RAF dates, it lists his prior engagement in HM Forces as being with the 5th Battalion (garrison artillery?). Am i right in thinking that this could be where he served after his injury with the 11th (shell shock). I imagine in a fast moving theatre of war, his "space" in the 11th would have been filled very quickly upon his injury, so upon his recovery and redeployment he would have been transferred to another battalion with space. In this case the 5th? If so, is there any way of finding out which 5th Battalion?

I have attached the relevant sections of the documents we have

Thanks
Adam

[George Rayner]

7 minutes ago, Fishyfins said:

Hi Adam

 

 

Did you look on the next page?

 

George

[Fishyfins]

Just now, George Rayner said:

Did you look on the next page?

 

George

This is the only page we have. This is it in full.

 

[George Rayner]

Here is the next page-from FMP

 

 

George

Edited 13 April , 2020 by George Rayner

[ss002d6252]

12 minutes ago, Fishyfins said:

He must have then decided stay at home for a while as he got married in his home city in June 1917.

It wouldn't be his decision as to whether or not to remain at home.

 

 

Quote

I imagine in a fast moving theatre of war, his "space" in the 11th would have been filled very quickly upon his injury, so upon his recovery and redeployment he would have been transferred to another battalion with space. In this case the 5th

Typically, yes. A space would be filled and a man would be re-deployed elsewhere.

 

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it lists his prior engagement in HM Forces as being with the 5th Battalion (garrison artillery?).

5th Battery, Royal Garrison Artillery.

 

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Reading the war diary of the 11th Battalion, there was an entry from the 2nd May that said 4 privates were wounded by a mortar explosion, so we assume he must be one of these?

Possibly or it may simply have been that an existing problem caught up with him and the MO felt he needed to be hospitalised. It seems that his 'wound' was the shell shock.

 

Craig

[Fishyfins]

27 minutes ago, George Rayner said:

Here is the next page-from FMP

 

 

George

Wonderful, thankyou. The dates make sense as per the first page, except the last set (12/12/16 - 4/1/17) would have been when he was injured the second time? Also, as it only mentions the 11th, does that mean he rejoined them after his first injury? And if so, why did it say the 5th Battalion on the previous page? Im getting confused XD

[Fishyfins]

24 minutes ago, ss002d6252 said:

It wouldn't be his decision as to whether or not to remain at home.

 

 

Typically, yes. A space would be filled and a man would be re-deployed elsewhere.

 

5th Battery, Royal Garrison Artillery.

 

Possibly or it may simply have been that an existing problem caught up with him and the MO felt he needed to be hospitalised. It seems that his 'wound' was the shell shock.

 

Craig

Wonderful information, thankyou!

[ss002d6252]

6 minutes ago, Fishyfins said:

Also, as it only mentions the 11th, does that mean he rejoined them after his first injury?

He was 11th Battalion until he was sent home from France - at some point in between he was almost certainly transferred (for admin purposes) to a depot battalion of the regiment - and then he was sent on to the 1st Battalion once fit.

Craig

[Fishyfins]

2 minutes ago, ss002d6252 said:

He was 11th Battalion until he was sent home from France - at some point in between he was almost certainly transferred (for admin purposes) to a depot battalion of the regiment - and then he was sent on to the 1st Battalion once fit.

Craig

Now im even more confused. He was in the 11th Batt in Egypt until March 1916, when the entire division was sent to France instead. But it does look like it says "1st Batt to France 8.3.16 - 15.5.16". This would have been the period of his service in France prior to his shell shock (transfer from Egypt to shortly after his injury). So did he serve in the 1st before his injury? Why would he suddenly be in the 1st when the rest of his Battalion just moved to France?
And if he served in the 1st after his injury, where does the 5th come in from the first page?

[ss002d6252]

Quote

But it does look like it says "1st Batt to France 8.3.16 - 15.5.16".

The record and the medal roll confirm he was with 1st Bn in France

 

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And if he served in the 1st after his injury, where does the 5th come in from the first page?

As I mentioned above there's no real scope for that during the war so I'd say most likely pre-war (or, a clerical error in the RFC's records).

 

Craig

[Fishyfins]

13 minutes ago, ss002d6252 said:

The record and the medal roll confirm he was with 1st Bn in France

 

As I mentioned above there's no real scope for that during the war so I'd say most likely pre-war (or, a clerical error in the RFC's records).

 

Craig

Thankyou! So, he served in the 11th in Egypt, and then transferred to the 1st when the rest of the 11th moved to France, and served in a different area. Then went back to the 1st after his shell shock injury?

[ss002d6252]

2 minutes ago, Fishyfins said:

Thankyou! So, he served in the 11th in Egypt, and then transferred to the 1st when the rest of the 11th moved to France, and served in a different area. Then went back to the 1st after his shell shock injury?

Reads that way to me.

Craig

[clk]

Hi Adam,

 

There are a fair number of service files for (11th Bn) East Yorks men that survive with numbers near to his, in the 11/10** range. They all attested within a couple of days of each other in early September 1914, which would tie back to the date of 11.9.1914 shown in his RFC papers. Some of them also contained identical date/place stamps as follows, which I presume would apply to James too.

 

Image sourced from Findmypast

 

Regards

Chris

Edited 13 April , 2020 by clk