williywonker Posted 18 August , 2020 Share Posted 18 August , 2020 For the benefit of someone totally uninitiated in the ranks of the Royal Navy, what was the seniority, responsibilities and duties of the Master at Arms aboard a warship during the Great War period? Mal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wexflyer Posted 18 August , 2020 Share Posted 18 August , 2020 Seniority: Senior rating aboard ship Duties: Shipboard discipline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolt968 Posted 19 August , 2020 Share Posted 19 August , 2020 Chief Petty Officer of the Regutating Branch (though I don't think it was called that in WW1). Head of the ship's police. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John(txic) Posted 19 August , 2020 Share Posted 19 August , 2020 Had the pleasure of dining with the Fleet Crusher in the wardroom at HMS Seahawk yonks ago. He had some tales to tell of Jack ashore... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawryleslie Posted 20 August , 2020 Share Posted 20 August , 2020 (edited) There is a little known quirky fact that the rank of MAA onboard an RN ship is traditionally only equal to the Chief Tiff (CERA) amongst Senior Rates(SNCOs). This enables the MAA to call only the Chief Tiff to represent him in the case of any misdemeanour by the MAA. I have personal experience of this as a Chief Tiff on a frigate in early 1990s when the MAA was adrift (late onboard ship after shore leave finished). I represented him at Captains table where he received a fine and an ear pounding from the skipper. Edited 20 August , 2020 by Lawryleslie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williywonker Posted 21 August , 2020 Author Share Posted 21 August , 2020 Many thanks for all your replies. Would it be customary for the MAA to be on the bridge with the captain when the ship was in action? Mal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNCVR Posted 22 August , 2020 Share Posted 22 August , 2020 On 19/08/2020 at 11:56, rolt968 said: Chief Petty Officer of the Regutating Branch (though I don't think it was called that in WW1). Head of the ship's police. NP - Naval Police up to 1919. Their actual titles \rates were Ships Corporals 2nd & 1st class. equivalent to Petty Officers, Military branch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David B Posted 30 August , 2020 Share Posted 30 August , 2020 The MAA has all sorts of names, most of them not mentionable on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talesofaseadog Posted 30 August , 2020 Share Posted 30 August , 2020 The following link provides a little bit of history about the MAA. http://www.rba93.com/history/history.html I think it is unlikely that the MAA was on the bridge during action however as the most senior NCO he could probably go wherever he wanted. In my time in the RN he really worked for the 1st Lt and crew welfare was a large part of his job as well as that vital moral booster, the mail. It would be of great interest if anyone could provide definitive answers. Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williywonker Posted 31 August , 2020 Author Share Posted 31 August , 2020 An interesting link Tony, many thanks Would it be reasonable to compare the authority of the MAA with that of an RSM? Mal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talesofaseadog Posted 31 August , 2020 Share Posted 31 August , 2020 I believe the RSM was not a policeman and would be for example the President of the Mess. I only ventured into a couple of army messes in my naval career and the RSM was President each time. The MAA would never hold that position. Other NCO's could easily be senior to the MAA and be President, they could also be junior to him as well. The President of the CPO's Mess on a ship is senior to the MAA whilst he is inside the mess but not outside of it. That can make make life difficult with certain personalities. Sometimes there is no direct equivalent in the ranks of the three armed services, that's what makes it so interesting. Hope this helps a bit. Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williywonker Posted 4 September , 2020 Author Share Posted 4 September , 2020 Fascinating. Thank you very much Tony Mal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williywonker Posted 19 December , 2020 Author Share Posted 19 December , 2020 Apologies fir resurrecting this old thread but I recently read that RMS Titanic had two MAA's. Was this typical? Mal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawryleslie Posted 19 December , 2020 Share Posted 19 December , 2020 8 hours ago, williywonker said: Apologies fir resurrecting this old thread but I recently read that RMS Titanic had two MAA's. Was this typical? Mal Certainly not typical of RN Ships where only one MAA was appointed and still is. Perhaps on a large passenger ship two were appointed. One to police the crew and one for the passenger security. Just guessing though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNCVR Posted 19 December , 2020 Share Posted 19 December , 2020 (edited) Usually one MAA per ship, but only on the capital ships - ie: Battleships, Battlecruisers, Heavy Cruisers, & likely on 2nd & 3rd class Cruisers as well, & later, Aircraft Carriers. The MAA was the senior rating on board & was entitled to carry a sword, a privilege only he enjoyed. The smaller classes of ships - ie - Destroyers, Torpedo boats, Sloops, Subs, etc, no MAA. MAA in centre - notice his sword. Post war photos - former Ship's Corporals are now Regulators - their rate badge is a crown worn on their right sleeves. MAA in centre, with his Regulating staff. You dont want to mess around with these fellows !! Edited 19 December , 2020 by RNCVR . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawryleslie Posted 20 December , 2020 Share Posted 20 December , 2020 16 hours ago, RNCVR said: Usually one MAA per ship, but only on the capital ships - ie: Battleships, Battlecruisers, Heavy Cruisers, & likely on 2nd & 3rd class Cruisers as well, & later, Aircraft Carriers. The MAA was the senior rating on board & was entitled to carry a sword, a privilege only he enjoyed. The smaller classes of ships - ie - Destroyers, Torpedo boats, Sloops, Subs, etc, no MAA. MAA in centre - notice his sword. Post war photos - former Ship's Corporals are now Regulators - their rate badge is a crown worn on their right sleeves. MAA in centre, with his Regulating staff. You dont want to mess around with these fellows !! The Petty Officer on front left of second picture is not Regulating Branch. I would say that his branch badge is possibly that of a PTI or "Club Swinger". Club Swingers came under the jurisdiction of the MAA for watchkeeping duties so this picture makes sense in that respect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williywonker Posted 20 December , 2020 Author Share Posted 20 December , 2020 Many thanks Lawry and RNCVR. What great photos, are the names of the men recorded at all? Mal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNCVR Posted 20 December , 2020 Share Posted 20 December , 2020 5 hours ago, Lawryleslie said: The Petty Officer on front left of second picture is not Regulating Branch. I would say that his branch badge is possibly that of a PTI or "Club Swinger". Club Swingers came under the jurisdiction of the MAA for watchkeeping duties so this picture makes sense in that respect. Yes Lawry, I agree, I knew he was not a Regulator but I thought his rate badge might be that of a Gunlayer, its hard to make out, it could well be a PT rate. I have another similar photo to this one, in it a PO PT rating in front row, among the Gunnery staff of HMCS Niobe when she was sold to the newly created RCN in 1910. I kind of wondered about a PT among Gunnery PO's but thought he was included in their complement as he fit in no other, ie: Stokers, Supply, Signalmen etc. I am certain I read in one of my many RN books that PT ratings were trained at HMS Excellent prior to turn of 19th\20th C, before they obtained their own training establishment. Best ....Bryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNCVR Posted 20 December , 2020 Share Posted 20 December , 2020 2 hours ago, williywonker said: Many thanks Lawry and RNCVR. What great photos, are the names of the men recorded at all? Mal No Mal, unfortunately no names recorded, which is very unfortunate as all of the RN ADM 188 details survive & are available for download. I have had several medal examples of Naval\Ship's Police in my collection over the years. I am certain their records would be quite revealing. Ship's Corporals & Regulators did not start out in those rates, they joined in other branches, & during the course of their careers they opted into the Ship's Police branch, for whatever reasons important to them. Earlier, in the later Victorian RN, many of Ship's Police were ex RM as well, but mainly Ship's Police came from the Stoker branch for some reason. Stokers generally were hard men likely good with their fists, & this 'talent' would likely serve them well as Ship's Police! Best wishes,,,,Bryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNCVR Posted 20 December , 2020 Share Posted 20 December , 2020 Some examples of NP (Naval Police) rates pre & 1WW period..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNCVR Posted 20 December , 2020 Share Posted 20 December , 2020 Ship's Police were renamed Regulators in 1921 & the Crown became their new rate badge....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNCVR Posted 20 December , 2020 Share Posted 20 December , 2020 Master at Arms also received their new rate badge in 1921 as well -- Apologies for digressing but thought might be of interest....... Best...Bryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawryleslie Posted 20 December , 2020 Share Posted 20 December , 2020 1 hour ago, RNCVR said: Yes Lawry, I agree, I knew he was not a Regulator but I thought his rate badge might be that of a Gunlayer, its hard to make out, it could well be a PT rate. I have another similar photo to this one, in it a PO PT rating in front row, among the Gunnery staff of HMCS Niobe when she was sold to the newly created RCN in 1910. I kind of wondered about a PT among Gunnery PO's but thought he was included in their complement as he fit in no other, ie: Stokers, Supply, Signalmen etc. I am certain I read in one of my many RN books that PT ratings were trained at HMS Excellent prior to turn of 19th\20th C, before they obtained their own training establishment. Best ....Bryan Bryan think you’re correct, looking closer it's more like a Gunlayer branch badge than PT. PTIs are now trained at the RNPTS HMS Temeraire in Portsmouth. This year they started taking direct entries as well as sideways recruitment within the RN/RMs. Regards Lawry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNCVR Posted 20 December , 2020 Share Posted 20 December , 2020 (edited) Yes, it certainly appears to be a Gunlayers rate but its really hard to be 100% certain! Appears to have a star above, & think if a PT instructor rate badge it might have a crown above. Thanks for the info on current RN PT rates. In the RCN (pre 1968) the PT branch was entered in trade group 2, so a rating had to first enter another trade after his basic training then transfer to the PT branch at a later date. At that point in their careers they had usually made LS when they transferred to PT branch. I dont know the current CAF regulations. Edited 20 December , 2020 by RNCVR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawryleslie Posted 20 December , 2020 Share Posted 20 December , 2020 On 19/12/2020 at 16:08, RNCVR said: Usually one MAA per ship, but only on the capital ships - ie: Battleships, Battlecruisers, Heavy Cruisers, & likely on 2nd & 3rd class Cruisers as well, & later, Aircraft Carriers. The MAA was the senior rating on board & was entitled to carry a sword, a privilege only he enjoyed. The smaller classes of ships - ie - Destroyers, Torpedo boats, Sloops, Subs, etc, no MAA. MAA in centre - notice his sword. Post war photos - former Ship's Corporals are now Regulators - their rate badge is a crown worn on their right sleeves. MAA in centre, with his Regulating staff. You dont want to mess around with these fellows !! I’ve just noticed the MAA's jacket being single breasted 4 buttons! Never seen this before. Do you know the origin of this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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