Mystery soldiers.

[Miss Jones]

I have this photo, plus I have  others mostly with no identification. I'd particularly like to know who this is. However, there's not even a  cap to help identify which regiment he's from. Any idea of regiment? Does he look like he's been injured or is it just a bad photo? 

Edited 6 September , 2020 by Miss Jones

[FROGSMILE]

He’s standing awkwardly because he’s holding a swagger stick (aka cane) in his right hand in a military fashion tucked under his arm.  He appears to have lost his right ear, unless it’s a flaw in the photo.  Although no regimental headdress badge can be seen, it is just about possible to discern a metal badge on his left shoulder strap whose position implies that it is probably the grenade part of the two piece RWF shoulder title (as per my avatar).

Edited 6 September , 2020 by FROGSMILE

[Miss Jones]

1 hour ago, FROGSMILE said:

He’s standing awkwardly because he’s holding a swagger stick (aka cane) in his right hand in a military fashion tucked under his arm.  He appears to have lost his right ear, unless it’s a flaw in the photo.  Although no regimental headdress badge can be seen, it is just about possible to discern a metal badge on his left shoulder strap whose position implies that it is probably the grenade part of the two piece RWF shoulder title (as per my avatar).

Other people have said it's just  an awful photo. I've had to lighten it as it's so dull. To me his left side looked like it was stiff, or like they were the old style prosthesis. I wish I had a name for him, also the other soldiers I have on photo too. I think some are  friends of the family, my uncle John was a horseman and I have him in the collection too. Thanks for replying. Appreciated. This is a fantastic forum.  

 

[FROGSMILE]

9 minutes ago, Miss Jones said:

Other people have said it's just  an awful photo. I've had to lighten it as it's so dull. To me his left side looked like it was stiff, or like they were the old style prosthesis. I wish I had a name for him, also the other soldiers I have on photo too. I think some are  friends of the family, my uncle John was a horseman and I have him in the collection too. Thanks for replying. Appreciated. This is a fantastic forum.  

 

I agree it’s a very ‘unnaturally’ posed photo.  I sense that he felt self conscious and the photographer probably told him to lean against the column style prop intended to help sitters stay still while the lengthy photographic exposure occurred (if the sitter moved the image was ruined).  At the same time he (the sitter) attempted to strike a military pose with the swagger stick.  The end result was the awkward look that we see.

Edited 6 September , 2020 by FROGSMILE

[CorporalPunishment]

He appears to have suffered a serious head injury by the look of it, the lack of a right ear and his right eye being higher than his left and looking artificial. No disrespect to the man but he also appears to be wearing a wig as well. It all points to him having had major surgery at some point and perhaps it was his last photo in uniform before discharge from the army on medical grounds.   Pete.

[FROGSMILE]

1 hour ago, CorporalPunishment said:

He appears to have suffered a serious head injury by the look of it, the lack of a right ear and his right eye being higher than his left and looking artificial. No disrespect to the man but he also appears to be wearing a wig as well. It all points to him having had major surgery at some point and perhaps it was his last photo in uniform before discharge from the army on medical grounds.   Pete.

 

He's certainly got a 'lantern jaw' Pete (reminds me of Desperate Dan in the Dandy), but I don't think that he's deformed.  One can sense that the photographer has instructed 'stand still' and the poor sitter has taken him quite literally at his word and stiffened up awkwardly!

Edited 6 September , 2020 by FROGSMILE

[Miss Jones]

Thanks for your answers guys! My daughter is a photographer, I'll see what she makes of it when I see her. 

Meanwhile, here is LT Phillips and Jay. Once more I have no idea who they are. 

Edited 6 September , 2020 by Miss Jones

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

The first shot certainly is a strange one.

As you say, the quality isn't good.

Could you get a High resolution scan rather than a grab shot from a smartphone?

I think the right ear is there, you can just see the upper tip, I guess the rest isn't visible because of the rotation of the head.

I don't feel the face and eyes are disfigured, I think they just show the variation that is normal between the two sides of the face.

However, it seems that the face and the hair do not belong together.

It could be a wig.

But the face does seem a little disproportionally large.

Could the photo be a composite shot, with one man's face superimposed on another body?

Photographers could manipulate images in those days, 70 years before Photoshop.

They invented copy, paste, cut, dodge, burn, mask etc.etc.

[Old Owl]

26 minutes ago, Miss Jones said:

Thanks for your answers guys! My daughter is a photographer, I'll see what she makes of it when I see her. 

Meanwhile, here is LT Phillips and Jay. Once more I have no idea who they are. 

Hi

The officer is wearing the badges of the Royal Fusiliers.  and with no cuff rank visible. I'll see if it is possible to identify him from the Army List.

Robert

[TEW]

I was also thinking along the lines of an altered/composite image. His left arm does look unnatural but perhaps that's just his awkward & uncomfortable default.

TEW

[Ypres1915]

I agree with the post suggesting a serious wound or multiple wounds to the head and face.  I believe that his ear is missing. He may have had reconstructive surgery on his face on the right. His cheek down to his neck on his right side is much larger than his left. It reminds me of a burn or skin graft. Attached is a photo of an American Football coach who survived a gasoline explosion at age 7 which caused the scarring on the right side of his face. It looks similar to the proportions of the face in the photo.

 

Ypres1915

[TEW]

I think surgery of that severity would be far more obvious in a war period photo. Skin grafting was in it's infancy.

 

I could go with a left arm problem but otherwise I think that's how he was, unless he is a composite image.

TEW 

[Miss Jones]

Dai Bach I no longer have a scanner unfortunately. A high Res would be good. I'll have to wait and see if my daughter can help. Diolch. 

Robert, thanks, I'd have no clue as to where I'd even begin to look. Much appreciated.

 

Thanks Tew and ypres for taking a look. 

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

I can't see a Lt. Phillips with an Anglesey connection in the AVL.

[Chris Foster]

First photo, whoever he is, he's a big chap, look at the size of hands! The difference in the tone of his face to his forehead, could be, in his former life he worked outdoors? Any forum members, who have been brought up in the country will recognise a farmers tan when they see it, ie the exposed parts of the flesh gets tanned and as the wearing of head wear  was more than common practice.

 The other more likely  reason could be that the strong light source to his left, could be burning out the the flesh tone, example, take a look at his hands, plus his forehead, above his right eye blends to his face

His head does look misshapen, not common but then again not unheard of . As far as head size is concerned, looking at it from an artists point of view,  the human body is 7 and half to 8 heads tall, this chaps head fits that proportion !

[Miss Jones]

Maybe he was on Anglesey where there were soldiers staying at the old manor house. Might be known to my uncle John. 

[Miss Jones]

2 minutes ago, Chris Foster said:

First photo, whoever he is, he's a big chap, look at the size of hands! The difference in the tone of his face to his forehead, could be, in his former life he worked outdoors? Any forum members, who have been brought up in the country will recognise a farmers tan when they see it, ie the exposed parts of the flesh gets tanned and as the wearing of head wear  was more than common practice.

 The other more likely  reason could be that the strong light source to his left, could be burning out the the flesh tone, example, take a look at his hands, plus his forehead, above his right eye blends to his face

His head does look misshapen, not common but then again not unheard of . As far as head size is concerned, looking at it from an artists point of view,  the human body is 7 and half to 8 heads tall, this chaps head fits that proportion !

Chris, lots of my family were farmers. Outdoors from dawn till dusk. However, there's no tall people, so my guess now he's not related to me. Thanks. 

[Old Owl]

I can only find three officers in the Feb 1919 Army List with the surname Phillips who served in the Royal Fusiliers,  these are:  A.W.Phillips; C.S.Phillips and H.Phillips.

Maybe a search via Ancestry will show their christian names and other details?

 

Robert

[Miss Jones]

3 minutes ago, Old Owl said:

I can only find three officers in the Feb 1919 Army List with the surname Phillips who served in the Royal Fusiliers,  these are:  A.W.Phillips; C.S.Phillips and H.Phillips.

Maybe a search via Ancestry will show their christian names and other details?

 

Robert

Yes I'll do that. Thank you. 

[TullochArd]

1 hour ago, Dai Bach y Sowldiwr said:

"The first shot certainly is a strange one"......."As you say, the quality isn't good"......."Could the photo be a composite shot, with one man's face superimposed on another body?"

 

 

I'm with DByS on all the above.  I would further add that the somewhat "detached" head seems peculiarly in focus compared with the remainder of the body supporting this further.  I've seen several "Mk 1" cut and paste photos from around this time and they are rarely convincing  They are usually conjured up to add a missing person or, perhaps in this case, create a retrospective record of past service?  

[TEW]

Following on.

Perhaps he has been seriously injured to the right side of head and the photographer has re-created that side?

Or, we're all doing the poor chap a great disservice.

TEW

 

[FROGSMILE]

1 hour ago, TEW said:

Following on.

Perhaps he has been seriously injured to the right side of head and the photographer has re-created that side?

Or, we're all doing the poor chap a great disservice.

TEW

 

Looking at the size of his hands I wouldn’t have wanted to be in the pub where and when he discovered that we’d been talking about him in quite these terms....😳

Edited 6 September , 2020 by FROGSMILE

[Chris Foster]

19 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

Looking at the size of his hands I wouldn’t have wanted to be in the pub where and when he discovered that we’d been talking about him in quite these terms....😳

Which is what I noticed, Frogsmile, see my above post!

[FROGSMILE]

2 minutes ago, Chris Foster said:

Which is what I noticed, Frogsmile, see my above post!

Yes, I had seen that.  

[headgardener]

2 hours ago, Old Owl said:

I can only find three officers in the Feb 1919 Army List with the surname Phillips who served in the Royal Fusiliers,  these are:  A.W.Phillips; C.S.Phillips and H.Phillips.

Maybe a search via Ancestry will show their christian names and other details?

 

Robert

 

He could also be 1st, 2nd, 3rd or 4th London R.