Hackles and Feathers in the Highland Regiments

[FROGSMILE]

7 hours ago, Ron Abbott said:

Yes, Cameronians and I have seen photos of their pipers wearing the white metal and black buttons before......and on a variety of uniforms, but it's not common.

 

They had some beautiful plaid brooches over the years and (depending on personal opinion) some horrendous looking sporrans!     

I’m wondering if the buttons were anything like this one of that was associated with their forebears.

[gordon92]

7 hours ago, FROGSMILE said:

Cameronian’s (Scottish Rifles) I think.  Black buttons and horse hair plumes on drummers, and black insignia on officers.  The pipers seem to have white metal buttons that are perhaps unique to them, not something I’ve noticed before.  The plaids are Douglas sett and the hose Cameronian’s pattern, as are the sporrans too.  The 2nd Battalion had a number of differing dress idiosyncrasies from the 1st Battalion to reflect that prior to 1881 one had been a more senior line regiment and the other light infantry.  One of these differences was the piper’s plaid brooch, another was the sporran.  It is the larger, 2nd Bn brooch that had the gem stone centre.  When the 1st and 2nd Battalions were obliged to merge in 1947 a compromise was reached by adopting selected features from each of the two battalions.  
 

The photo shows a group from the 2nd Battalion.

 

 

7 hours ago, Ron Abbott said:

Yes, Cameronians and I have seen photos of their pipers wearing the white metal and black buttons before......and on a variety of uniforms, but it's not common.

 

They had some beautiful plaid brooches over the years and (depending on personal opinion) some horrendous looking sporrans!     

 

I would agree that the photo posted by ron marsden is that of the Pipes, Drums, and Bugles of the 2nd Battalion Scottish Rifles.  Another clue is the double braced Sam Browne belts of the two officers in the front.  I had not previously seen blackcock feathers in Wolseley helmets....interesting.  The hackles worn by the buglers in the rear, I believe, were black.  The 1st Bn Cameronians used a black hackle in the Balmoral during the 1950s.

[FROGSMILE]

On 10/09/2020 at 20:38, gordon92 said:

 

 

I would agree that the photo posted by ron marsden is that of the Pipes, Drums, and Bugles of the 2nd Battalion Scottish Rifles.  Another clue is the double braced Sam Browne belts of the two officers in the front.  I had not previously seen blackcock feathers in Wolseley helmets....interesting.  The hackles worn by the buglers in the rear, I believe, were black.  The 1st Bn Cameronians used a black hackle in the Balmoral during the 1950s.

A hackle comprises of cut feathers which gives a very distinct appearance even from a distance.  The shape indicates to me that they are horsehair  plumes (nicknamed by the soldiers a ‘shaving brush’), rather than hackles.  These were quite common for other ranks wear with Wolseley helmets at that time, including fusilier and highland regiments.  They were far more robust and easy to preserve in the difficult conditions of foreign service for soldiers accommodated in large barrack rooms with no more storage than an under-bed, lockable ‘soldier box’ (a type of foot locker).  See photos below.  The officers however, did have a private purchase cut feather hackle.

 

As for the button seen on the pipers uniform, it seems likely that they were white metal general service buttons that were issued within the regiment for white piped doublets in 1902.

 

Given that they are 2nd Battalion I think you are correct that they are buglers.  It was the 1st Battalion that maintained a corps of drums.

 

 

 

Edited 11 September , 2020 by FROGSMILE

[gordon92]

12 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

I’m wondering if the buttons were anything like this one of that was associated with their forebears.

Major HG Parkyn in "Shoulder Belt Plates and Buttons" had this to say:

"After becoming Rifles in 1881, the button became black and had the design of a bugle-horn with bow below a crown, within a spray of thistles. The pipers' diamond-shaped buttons were of white metal with the design of a bugle-horn interwoven with three thistles."

 

It does not appear that the pipers' buttons on the KD frocks are diamond shaped, so the old 90th round button is as good a guess as any.

[FROGSMILE]

4 minutes ago, gordon92 said:

Major HG Parkyn in "Shoulder Belt Plates and Buttons" had this to say:

"After becoming Rifles in 1881, the button became black and had the design of a bugle-horn with bow below a crown, within a spray of thistles. The pipers' diamond-shaped buttons were of white metal with the design of a bugle-horn interwoven with three thistles."

 

It does not appear that the pipers' buttons on the KD frocks are diamond shaped, so the old 90th round button is as good a guess as any.

Yes I’m well aware of those two buttons, which I enclose.  Having just spent some time researching I think that the button is most probably the white metal GS pattern seen on the doublet.

 

Edited 10 September , 2020 by FROGSMILE

[gordon92]

2 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

Yes I’m well aware of those two buttons, which I enclose.  Having just spent some time researching I think that the button is most probably the white metal GS pattern seen on the doublet.

 

Seems entirely plausible.

[FROGSMILE]

12 hours ago, gordon92 said:

Seems entirely plausible.

The Cameronian’s pipers are known to have worn such a garment.  They are unlikely to have got away with wearing a button marked 90th.  Even when the 2nd Battalion retained a plain bugle badge of similar type to that they’d worn as 90th LI, it was careful to replace the number 90 with the letters SR.

 

For the sake of completeness it would be a good idea to add ‘plumes’ to your study.

Edited 11 September , 2020 by FROGSMILE

[FROGSMILE]

Ron’s photo of 2nd Battalion Cameronian’s (Scottish Rifles) has a number of unusual dress idiosyncrasies from that snapshot in time.  I’m fairly sure that the pipers are securing the black cock feathers to the sides of their helmets using the helmet plate used by the regiment prior to their adoption of the shako.  A similar (but not identical) shaped badge was used as pouch belt insignia.  Both were topped by crowns.

Edited 12 September , 2020 by FROGSMILE

[gordon92]

On 10/09/2020 at 15:52, FROGSMILE said:

A hackle comprises of cut feathers which gives a very distinct appearance even from a distance.  The shape indicates to me that they are horsehair  plumes (nicknamed by the soldiers a ‘shaving brush’), rather than hackles.  These were quite common for other ranks wear with Wolseley helmets at that time, including fusilier and highland regiments.  They were far more robust and easy to preserve in the difficult conditions of foreign service for soldiers accommodated in large barrack rooms with no more storage than an under-bed, lockable ‘soldier box’ (a type of foot locker).  See photos below.  The officers however, did have a private purchase cut feather hackle.

 

As for the button seen on the pipers uniform, it seems likely that they were white metal general service buttons that were issued within the regiment for white piped doublets in 1902.

 

Given that they are 2nd Battalion I think you are correct that they are buglers.  It was the 1st Battalion that maintained a corps of drums.

 

 

Thanks for those interesting photos.  Distinction between hackles and horsehair plumes noted.

 

Prior to the 1881 reforms, the 26th had a pipes & drums while the 90th had a bugle corps.  Post 1881 the 2nd battalion added pipers and drummers who were trained by counterparts from the 1st Seaforth.  I think the 1st battalion did add a separate corps of bugles....see below photo with buglers in the rear.  The old 26th Mullet badge can be seen on the pipers.  So, it appears that both battalions had a band of pipes, drums, and bugles.

 

[FROGSMILE]

55 minutes ago, gordon92 said:

 

I think the 1st battalion did add a separate corps of bugles....see below photo with buglers in the rear.  The old 26th Mullet badge can be seen on the pipers.  So, it appears that both battalions had a band of pipes, drums, and bugles.

 

 

This has been discussed before in the forum I think (unless I'm confusing it with the late VWF), certainly all three musical elements were present in the regiment when it disbanded in 1968.  Interestingly in 1947-48 when all the line infantry regiments were ordered to reduce to one battalion it was the 1st Battalion that was dispersed and the 2nd Battalion then renumbered as 1st.

Edited 12 September , 2020 by FROGSMILE

[gordon92]

2 hours ago, FROGSMILE said:

This has been discussed before in the forum I think (unless I'm confusing it with the late VWF), certainly all three musical elements were present in the regiment when it disbanded in 1968.  Interestingly in 1947-48 when all the line infantry regiments were ordered to reduce to one battalion it was the 1st Battalion that was dispersed and the 2nd Battalion then renumbered as 1st.

 

Was there a reason that you are aware for the VWF going off the air?

[FROGSMILE]

35 minutes ago, gordon92 said:

 

Was there a reason that you are aware for the VWF going off the air?

Yes, I will PM you and explain my perception of it.

[FROGSMILE]

On 12/09/2020 at 17:24, gordon92 said:

 

Thanks for those interesting photos.  Distinction between hackles and horsehair plumes noted.

 

 

Just to emphasise, the horse hair plume was a feature of only the Wolseley helmet [edit - and other solar types], and as mentioned worn by a number of regiments.  In all cases the officers wore a cut feather hackle.

As an aside, another most unusual distinction worn on the Wolseley helmet was the dark green woollen cockade (pom-pom) worn by the King’s Own (Yorkshire) Light Infantry in the same manner as the horsehair plume (i.e. on the side protruding from the pagri).  Originally a feature of shakos, it has subsequently become a popular adornment to berets in the Indian Army.  To my certain knowledge the KOYLI were the last ever British infantry regiment to wear a cockade.

Edited 14 September , 2020 by FROGSMILE

[TullochArd]

 

Regarding the Seaforth Highlanders: Pipers wore green hackles on Tropical Helmets from the 1870's until WW2 and Drummers and Bandsmen wore red hackles in these until 1951. 

[TullochArd]

On 08/09/2020 at 16:57, FROGSMILE said:

I’m not aware of any unit wearing a “black” glengarry.  Do you mean dark blue?  The standard glengarry for both Cameronian’s (SR) and HLI was dark green and identical in shade.  Indeed it was a standard issue for both units and was in small part (i.e. one of several practical reasons) why they operated a joint regimental depot, as it facilitated the supply chain from the ordnance store facilities and RACD. Prior to the Childers Reform they had been differently paired (with other regiments) under the Cardwell’s Localization Act of 1874.

 

Similarly I am not aware of a "black" glengarry.  The issued item was/is very, very, very dark blue with black (leather/fabric) headband and black tails.  I have seen many an instance of a common black boot brush being used in lieu of a much rarer clothes brush with achieves a lasting black effect over time.

 

[FROGSMILE]

1 minute ago, TullochArd said:

 

Similarly I am not aware of a "black" glengarry.  The issued item was/is very, very, very dark blue with black (leather/fabric) headband and black tails.  I have seen many an instance of a common black boot brush being used in lieu of a much rarer clothes brush with achieves a lasting black effect over time.

 

 

It's certainly odd, but I did find two references to it and so assumed that gordon92 must be correct.

[gordon92]

13 hours ago, FROGSMILE said:

Just to emphasise, the horse hair plume was a feature of only the Wolseley helmet, and as mentioned worn by a number of regiments.  In all cases the officers wore a cut feather hackle.

As an aside, another most unusual distinction worn on the Wolseley helmet was the dark green woollen cockade (pom-pom) worn by the King’s Own (Yorkshire) Light Infantry in the same manner as the horsehair plume (i.e. on the side protruding from the pagri).  Originally a feature of shakos, it has subsequently become a popular adornment to berets in the Indian Army.  To my certain knowledge the KOYLI were the last ever British infantry regiment to wear a cockade.

Sounds like a quite distinctive headdress.  Would you have a photo?

 

8 hours ago, TullochArd said:

 

Regarding the Seaforth Highlanders: Pipers wore green hackles on Tropical Helmets from the 1870's until WW2 and Drummers and Bandsmen wore red hackles in these until 1951. 

Regarding the Pipers green hackles, that is good to know.  I had previously thought they were red hackles, but green hackles do make more sense.  I will amend my tables in the first post of this thread.  Concerning drummers, my information has only 1st Battalion drummers with the red hackle in the feather bonnet with the 2nd Bn in white hackles. I had thought that the same convention applied to the Foreign Service Helmet. Are you sure that 2nd Bn drummers wore a red hackle in the tropical helmet?

[FROGSMILE]

6 hours ago, gordon92 said:

Sounds like a quite distinctive headdress.  Would you have a photo?

Yes, here are some of the 2nd Battalion.  It was worn on the left side of the helmet.  The 2nd Battalion had been the 105th (Madras Light Infantry) Regiment and were originally the 2nd Madras European Light Infantry of the Honourable East India Company, so it was probably from them that the dress idiosyncrasy originated.

 

Edited 14 September , 2020 by FROGSMILE

[gordon92]

5 hours ago, FROGSMILE said:

Yes, here are some of the 2nd Battalion.  It was worn on the left side of the helmet.  The 2nd Battalion had been the 105th (Madras Light Infantry) Regiment and were originally the 2nd Madras European Light Infantry of the Honourable East India Company, so it was probably from them that the dress idiosyncrasy originated.

 

Great photos.  Thank you.  In the 2nd photo, which appears to be late inter-war period, the men are wearing some kind of gaiters or leg wraps that I do not recognize.  Would you know what they are?

[FROGSMILE]

5 hours ago, gordon92 said:

Great photos.  Thank you.  In the 2nd photo, which appears to be late inter-war period, the men are wearing some kind of gaiters or leg wraps that I do not recognize.  Would you know what they are?

Yes, sometimes referred to as gaiters (from a previous type) they are more properly ‘anklets’ web, 1937 pattern, which were fastened via two straps and brass frame buckles.  Issued until at least the end of the 1970s, they were to protect the ankles and top of the short boot and intended as a replacement for long puttees.  However, short puttees continued in tandem in various stations and were generally more popular, not least because they could be washed, rather than as anklets were, cleaned in a variety of time-wasting outlandish ways in true British Army fashion.  Initially cleaned by thinly but painstakingly coating them with a modern form of pipeclay (pale khaki although there were other shades) known by its maker’s name, ‘Blanco’, later on it was often cleaned with boot polish, or a specially coloured regimentally arranged alternative.  The change from ankle to high boots in the 1980s-90s led to the anklets demise.  Nobody mourned its passing.  
 

Image courtesy of the Imperial War Museum.

Edited 14 September , 2020 by FROGSMILE

[gordon92]

3 hours ago, FROGSMILE said:

Yes, sometimes referred to as gaiters (from a previous type) they are more properly ‘anklets’ web, 1937 pattern, which were fastened via to straps and brass frame buckles.  Issued until at least the end of the 1970s, they were to protect the ankles and top of the short boot and intended as a replacement for long puttees.  However, short puttees continued in tandem in various stations and were generally more popular, not least because they could be washed, rather than as anklets were, cleaned in a variety of time-wasting outlandish ways in true British Army fashion.  Initially cleaned by thinly but painstakingly coating them with a modern form of pipeclay (pale khaki although there were other shades) known by its maker’s name, ‘Blanco’, later on it was often cleaned with boot polish, or a specially coloured regimentally arranged alternative.  The change from ankle to high boots in the 1980s-90s led to the anklets demise.  Nobody mourned it passing.  
 

Image courtesy of the Imperial War Museum.

 

All good to know.  Thanks.

[FROGSMILE]

24 minutes ago, gordon92 said:

 

All good to know.  Thanks.

Sometimes a white ‘Blanco’ was used (very traditional) for ceremonial smartness, and it does look as if that might be the case in the photo that you queried.

Edited 14 September , 2020 by FROGSMILE

[TullochArd]

On 14/09/2020 at 02:15, gordon92 said:

On 14/09/2020 at 02:15, gordon92 said:

Regarding the Pipers green hackles, that is good to know.  I had previously thought they were red hackles, but green hackles do make more sense.  I will amend my tables in the first post of this thread.  Concerning drummers, my information has only 1st Battalion drummers with the red hackle in the feather bonnet with the 2nd Bn in white hackles. I had thought that the same convention applied to the Foreign Service Helmet. Are you sure that 2nd Bn drummers wore a red hackle in the tropical helmet?

 

 

Sorry about the delay in replying.  1 SEAFORTH (attached photo - Racecourse, Shanghai, 1939) shows the three types of hackle in use: green for pipers as I recall stated by my late father, front rank standing, second from left, white for the Battalion and, regrettably inconclusive in this this B&W photo, something dark for drummers.  This detail is supplemented by Lt Col Angus Fairrie (ex CO 1 QO HLDRS and Fort George Museum Curator for many years) in his book "Cuidich'n Righ" page 158 "Tropical helmets were introduced for wear in in hot climates in the 1870's and a small version of the hackle was often worn in them.  In the Seaforth Highlanders the pipers wore wore green hackles in their tropical helmets until World War II and the drummers and bandsmen wore red hackles until 1951." He does not differentiate 1 and 2 SEAFORTH but I cautiously note his use of "was OFTEN worn" (my capitalisation) so we are not there yet ...... the jury remains out on whether 2 SEAFORTH drummers "often wore" a white hackle or a red hackle.

 

 

Edited 15 September , 2020 by TullochArd

[FROGSMILE]

11 hours ago, TullochArd said:

 

Sorry about the delay in replying.  1 SEAFORTH (attached photo - Racecourse, Shanghai, 1939) shows the three types of hackle in use: green for pipers as I recall stated by my late father, front rank standing, second from left, white for the Battalion and, regrettably inconclusive in this this B&W photo, something dark for drummers.  This detail is supplemented by Lt Col Angus Fairrie (ex CO 1 QO HLDRS and Fort George Museum Curator for many years) in his book "Cuidich'n Righ" page 158 "Tropical helmets were introduced for wear in in hot climates in the 1870's and a small version of the hackle was often worn in them.  In the Seaforth Highlanders the pipers wore wore green hackles in their tropical helmets until World War II and the drummers and bandsmen wore red hackles until 1951." He does not differentiate 1 and 2 SEAFORTH but I cautiously note his use of "was OFTEN worn" (my capitalisation) so we are not there yet ...... the jury remains out on whether 2 SEAFORTH drummers "often wore" a white hackle or a red hackle.

 

 

 

A super photo TullochArd and I’m intrigued to see the pipers have a Baldric badge that I do not recognise, it seems to have a star shape.  Looking at other photos of pipers the Seaforth had a tradition of wearing such a badge but it appears in a variety of styles, and I’m suspecting that the 1st and 2nd battalions badges might have been variants to reflect their different origins.  It would be interesting to compare them, although that would deviate from this thread on hackles (feathers), and plumes.

 

NB.  The middle photo shows a PM of the Seaforth Highlanders of Canada.

 

Edited 15 September , 2020 by FROGSMILE

[FROGSMILE]

This photo of an Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders piper wearing an undress doublet gives a fine view of their red hackle in his Wolseley (foreign service) helmet judiciously positioned on the floor in front of him.  Notice the special badge used to secure the feathers in place.

 

Edited 15 September , 2020 by FROGSMILE