Interesting entry on grave registration form!

[DuncanBro]

This is an interesting entry on Private John Virgo's Grave Registration Form - 'travelling show proprietors' . Don't know what the 'Catheridge, Worcester' means though. 

Wondering if he was Romany? Died in Worcester just after the war ended. 

 

 

Edited 7 September , 2020 by DuncanBro

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

Cotheridge, 4 miles west of Worcester.

Presumably an address.

[BillyH]

1 hour ago, DuncanBro said:

This is an interesting entry on Private John Virgo's Grave Registration Form - 'travelling show proprietors' .

 

Perhaps a circus owner?

 

BillyH.

[Matlock1418]

1 hour ago, DuncanBro said:

'travelling show proprietors'

Sounds like a circus may be in town!

Edit: Like what Billy says!!!

;-) M

Edited 7 September , 2020 by Matlock1418

[BillyH]

You, me, and IPT are looking at the same topics (but I type quicker)  

 

BillyH.

[DuncanBro]

Yeah, that's what I thought. There's a few discrepancies with this guy too. CWGC documents say he served in the Duke of Cornwall's Light infantry, but no mention of that on his medal roll. Also have his date of death as 30th November, when his grave stone says 28th.

No surviving service record I can find though. 

An odd one! 

Edited 7 September , 2020 by DuncanBro

[Matlock1418]

Billy,

Yes, I had noted and you beat me on this one!

;-) M

Edited 7 September , 2020 by Matlock1418

[Matlock1418]

1 hour ago, DuncanBro said:

 Private John Virgo ... Worcester

Pension Ledger and Card show mother, Mrs Matilda Smith, living in Worcester = Great House, Leigh Court, Worcester

Obviously she might have remarried or just married - but could "Virgo" possibly be a 'stage' name / alias???

:-) M

Edited 7 September , 2020 by Matlock1418

[DuncanBro]

2 minutes ago, Matlock1418 said:

Pension Ledger and Card show mother, Mrs Matilda Smith, living in Worcester.

Obviously she might have remarried or just married - but could "Virgo" possibly be a 'stage' name / alias???

:-) M

Yes, sounds like a stage name. 

Just now, DuncanBro said:

Yes, sounds like a stage name. 

Where did you get the pension ledger from? 

[Matlock1418]

1 minute ago, DuncanBro said:

Where did you get the pension ledger from? 

Western Front Association - also available from Fold3

:-) M

2 minutes ago, DuncanBro said:

but could "Virgo" possibly be a 'stage' name / alias???

Could just be his star sign!

;-) M

[DuncanBro]

How much is Fold3 to use? Thought about using it, but would only need it for a short time. 

[Matlock1418]

Think you might be able to get a quick free trial or just a taster short subscription - you will have to check them out.

WFA costs £29 pa in UK and brings other sorts of benefits!

:-0 M

[Matlock1418]

25 minutes ago, DuncanBro said:

Also have his date of death as 30th November, when his grave stone says 28th.

That's interesting - yes it does

Find a Grave have a photo(s) of a private headstone - reads 28.11.1918 [actually Nov. 28th 1918 - Aged 26 years] https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/78709635/john-virgo

CWGC have changed from 28 => 30.11.1918 on the GRRF and have used 30.11.1918 for their GR and web commemoration

His Pension Card has 30.11.1918

:-/ M

[tootrock]

It may be his real name: there are 10 Medal Index Cards for John Virgo according to Ancestry.

Martin

[DuncanBro]

1 minute ago, Matlock1418 said:

That's interesting - yes it does

Find a Grave have a photo(s) of a private headstone - reads 28.11.1918 [actually Nov. 28th 1918 - Aged 26 years] https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/78709635/john-virgo

CWGC have changed from 28 => 30.11.1918 on the GRRF and have used 30.11.1918 for their GR and web commemoration

His Pension Card has 30.11.1918

:-/ M

I've ordered his death certificate, that should answer it! 

[Matlock1418]

1 minute ago, DuncanBro said:

I've ordered his death certificate, that should answer it! 

It should!

When/as you posted I was just about to suggest 30.11. 1918 might have been his date of burial [???} - you could look at the Burial Register [though probably only for the date of burial] - but will still do so.

[I am involved in another current thread where we are discussing potential scenarios where various sources come up with different dates from CWGC and the possible reasons (including possibly date of burial) why there is such variance and then why CWGC plumped for the one they did for date of death]

Do please let us know here how you get on when you get the DC

Certainly CWGC will want a DC if a change of date is to be requested!

:-) M

[Matlock1418]

1 hour ago, DuncanBro said:

CWGC documents say he served in the Duke of Cornwall's Light infantry

Yes in the Grave Register = ??? - Has been picked up and also used on FaG   :-/

I note the CWGC web commemoration currently also reflects the alternative unit "late 35th Bn. (31810) Royal Fusiliers" which is on the GRRF that you originally posted. Edit: LC & RF match his MIC - Not a DCLI in sight - however he may perhaps have served even earlier in DCLI on HS only and thus no such proof so far = ??? Or DCLI may just be a just a GR 'typo' = ???

:-/ M

Edited 7 September , 2020 by Matlock1418
addition

[Matlock1418]

57 minutes ago, tootrock said:

It may be his real name: there are 10 Medal Index Cards for John Virgo according to Ancestry.

Yep, not least because there is an apparently relevant GRO entry and it is on his headstone - so probably so

However does the absolutely true name have to go on a headstone? - We have probably all seen diminutives and nicknames on stones and aliases have been put up before.

But worth a punt [and I did also, in jest, suggest it might have been his star sign!] - to ensure all potential corners are looked into.

The awaited DC should probably firm up and solve matters, one way or another ... in hope!

:-) M

[IPT]

I suspect the mother may have been hop picking at Great House Farm. 

 

As an aside, in 1906, there was a riot amongst the 1200 hop pickers at the farm ...

 

"The hop-pickers were working in three parties, about 200 gipsies forming one, a Birmingham contingent another, and people from Dudley and Halesowen the third."

"the factions quickly came to blows, sticks were used freely, heads were cracked, and knives were brought into play, but those who resorted to cold steel were overpowered and disarmed, before much blood was shed.

"Victory rested with the swarthy gipsies, and some of the vanquished plunged into the Teme, and waded to the opposite bank to escape the onslaught of the conquering two hundred.

"Four of the gipsies were armed with guns and one shot was fired during the struggle, but the bullet did not find a billet. Sticks were used and some of the combatants were very badly knocked about."

[johnboy]

Smith is a common name amongst Travellers,

[Alisonmallen62]

The name Virgo apparently has mediaeval origins. 

[BillyH]

9 hours ago, johnboy said:

Smith is a common name amongst Travellers,

 

and non travellers  

 

BillyH.

Edited 8 September , 2020 by BillyH

[Robin Garrett]

5 hours ago, Alisonmallen62 said:

The name Virgo apparently has mediaeval origins. 

Probably given to someone who played the part of the Virgin Mary in miracle plays, according to "A Dictionary of English Surnames.

[Alisonmallen62]

The name Virgo apparently has mediaeval origins.  Or even Simon Vig of 1275! Quite a lot of Virgos on census documentation. 

[Ray Tomlinson]

I’m probably a bit late to the party but “Travelling Show” people usually run fairgrounds during the summer months and retire to a fixed address during the winter where they service and maintain their equipment.

R

Edited 9 September , 2020 by Ray Tomlinson