Sandie Hayes Posted 2 October , 2020 Share Posted 2 October , 2020 I'm currently looking at this chap, who is buried in the local cemetery. He died in Chester in March 1921 and is on the CWGC database. Would he still be serving in the Army, if he has a record with CWGC? He is buried in a private grave. His service record is only available up to 1916, when he was discharged for being underage. I have a basic Ancestry account but can't find anything that states his cause of death. Is there any way of finding out, without ordering a death certificate? Many thanks, Sandie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin DavidOwen Posted 2 October , 2020 Admin Share Posted 2 October , 2020 The only record under the service number on CWGC on FMP is his CWGC entry. Looking at the service number I would surmise he had re-enlisted but that probably needs confirming by an expert. Not found anything in their newspapers either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin DavidOwen Posted 2 October , 2020 Admin Share Posted 2 October , 2020 The re-enlistment is confirmed by his Lives of the First World War entry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandie Hayes Posted 2 October , 2020 Author Share Posted 2 October , 2020 Thank you for trying, it's much appreciated. He joined the Cheshire Regiment in 1914, aged 15. He was discharged in 1916, when his real age was discovered. His CWGC record has him in the Lancashire Fusiliers. Thanks again, Sandie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matlock1418 Posted 2 October , 2020 Share Posted 2 October , 2020 37 minutes ago, Sandie Hayes said: I'm currently looking at this chap, who is buried in the local cemetery. He died in Chester in March 1921 and is on the CWGC database. This would seem to appear to be 3434638 https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/2747770/H LINTOTT As a seven digit number he would appear to possibly have a post-war service record still held by the MoD Others may be able to search/find first. - if so you could apply for them - https://www.gov.uk/get-copy-military-service-records/apply-for-someone-elses-records [but more expensive than a DC!!!] Multiple pension records at WFA/Fold3 but no cause of death Mother: Mrs Ada Lintott, 127 Church Street, Runcorn. :-) M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clk Posted 2 October , 2020 Share Posted 2 October , 2020 Hi Sandie, His Soldiers' Effects record (Ancestry link) appears to name his father as 'Wm', and shows... Image sourced from Ancestry Searching FMP using just 'Lintott' and 'Lancashire Fusiliers', I got these hits... Image sourced from Findmypast The PoW record is an image of an index card held by the ICRC... Image sourced from Findmypast In the Red Cross archives, the associated PoW register pages are here and here.. Images sourced from the ICRC 3 hours ago, Matlock1418 said: Multiple pension records at WFA/Fold3 but no cause of death Mother: Mrs Ada Lintott, 127 Church Street, Runcorn. That address would appear to tie back to the NoK details in the PoW records. 4 hours ago, Sandie Hayes said: He joined the Cheshire Regiment in 1914, aged 15. He was discharged in 1916, when his real age was discovered. It escapes me at the moment, but presuming that when he re-enlisted he was given a new service number, (and presuming it's correct) trying to date the 54625 number may help to establish when that was. I'm also finding it difficult to find him on the medal rolls. Regards Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matlock1418 Posted 2 October , 2020 Share Posted 2 October , 2020 16 minutes ago, clk said: I'm also finding it difficult to find him on the medal rolls. Lancashire Fusiliers 52645 MIC at TNA https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D3686127 [and Ancestry] gives BWM & VM on H/1/101 B25 page 5086 :-) M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandie Hayes Posted 2 October , 2020 Author Share Posted 2 October , 2020 (edited) Thank you so much for all of this information, guys. A prisoner of war at 18 and Insane by the age of 21. I'm lost for words! I can't thank you enough for your time and effort, it really is appreciated. Sandie. Edited 2 October , 2020 by Sandie Hayes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clk Posted 2 October , 2020 Share Posted 2 October , 2020 Nice one M ! So it's 52645 rather than 54625, with the associated medal roll record here - indicating overseas service only with the 1/8 Bn. Sandie It's a bit dangerous to make inferences about a man based on a limited sample size of others, but 52656 Lovell appears to have been renumbered when he was transferred to the 1/8 Bn Lancashire Fusiliers on 7.4.1918, shortly after he had arrived at an Infantry Base Depot in France. Image sourced from Findmypast Wider 'near number' sampling may help to confirm, or otherwise. regards Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 2 October , 2020 Share Posted 2 October , 2020 1 hour ago, clk said: Wider 'near number' sampling may help to confirm, or otherwise. confirmed by straddle: 52634 to 1/8th LF 7/4/18 from IBD France Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadbrewer Posted 3 October , 2020 Share Posted 3 October , 2020 From The Runcorn Weekly News, March 24th, 1921....the article goes onto say that a military funeral was expected but the Military did not turn up...no reason given. Courtesy of the British Newspaper Archive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headgardener Posted 3 October , 2020 Share Posted 3 October , 2020 The short period of time (7 weeks) from discharge to death suggests to me that he may have been suffering from some form of degenerative brain disease, such as GPI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 3 October , 2020 Share Posted 3 October , 2020 It looks like investing in the death certificate may be worthwhile. It would give the cause of death, hopefully in specific terms. It should also give the place of death,which, again, may help-at home? In a hospital? In an asylum? Even the reporter-hopefully a doctor-might give a clue if we know where the doctor was at the time or what his qualifications were. The newspaper extract suggest to me that he may have contracted some form of illness on service in India-Yes, the real,original "doolally". Thus, a degenerative brain condition sufficiently bad to be repatriated home -in September- but which still took a further 6 months or so to kill him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clk Posted 3 October , 2020 Share Posted 3 October , 2020 (edited) Hi Sandie, Reading the records of 52634 Jones and 52656 Lovell together, both men appear to have been called up, and posted a few days later to the 3/5th King’s (Liverpool Regiment) on 20.9.1917. Subsequently, it seems that they embarked at Folkstone on 6.4.1918, and arrived at 'G' Infantry Base Depot (in Etaples) on the same day, where they were notionally posted to the 1/5 KLR, before being transferred to the 1/8 Lancashire Fusiliers (and given their new numbers) on 7.4.1918. The record for Lovell shows that he "Joined Battalion" (presumably in the field) on 10.4.1918. Unfortunately, the Battalion war diary doesn't appear to record reinforcements arriving. The timeline might point towards something for Harold, but I think the only thing that is probably certain is that he arrived in France from a UK unit, and was numbered to 52645 in the 1/8 Lancashire Fusiliers at 'G' IBD on 7.4.1918. Taking the newspaper report on face value, I wonder if a Forum Pal might know which unit/s of the Lancashire Fusiliers were in India post WW1, and prior to September 1920? In the 1911 Census, living at 127 Church Street are: Image sourced from Ancestry 21 hours ago, Sandie Hayes said: I'm currently looking at this chap, who is buried in the local cemetery. If you have one, would it be possible to post an image of his resting place please? Edit: In his PoW record I link that "G. G. Brust" means that he was taken captive with a rifle bullet wound to his chest. Regards Chris Edited 3 October , 2020 by clk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matlock1418 Posted 3 October , 2020 Share Posted 3 October , 2020 On 02/10/2020 at 20:27, clk said: It looks like investing in the death certificate may be worthwhile. It would give the cause of death, hopefully in specific terms. It should also give the place of death,which, again, may help-at home? In a hospital? In an asylum? Even the reporter-hopefully a doctor-might give a clue if we know where the doctor was at the time or what his qualifications were. The newspaper extract suggest to me that he may have contracted some form of illness on service in India-Yes, the real,original "doolally". Thus, a degenerative brain condition sufficiently bad to be repatriated home -in September- but which still took a further 6 months or so to kill him. "Insane" could perhaps be due delayed 'shellshock' / Post Traumatic Stress Disorder - so death could perhaps be suicide Or due a disease Or ...? I too think at the moment a DC is the likely best way out of this [of course it may then go an open up enquiries again!] Sandie - Please do let us know. :-) M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandie Hayes Posted 3 October , 2020 Author Share Posted 3 October , 2020 Thank you all for your interest in this man. I would never have found out any of this without you. Your research is so very much appreciated. Sandie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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