When would YOU have removed Sir John French?

[Muerrisch]

23 minutes ago, phil andrade said:

 

Any British officer who managed to escape from Isandlwhana must have had a good deal of dash.

 

Phil

He was rather peripheral to the action as I recall.

[phil andrade]

Why did French and SD fall out so badly ?

 

Had there been some kind of clash that accounts for it ?

 

I remember reading that SD could be antagonistic.

 

Being a trembling violet is no attribute of high command, but it does seem that there was a toxicity in the army that increased the difficulty of fighting the war.

 

Kitchener was culpable in this respect, and French was known to be mercurial.

 

Margot Asquith described Haig as a splendid soldier, but a very stupid man.  That says a lot about how much regard there was for the Army in British high society.

 

Fools were suffered gladly, because they were in a profession that was perceived as the realm of dullards.

 

Phil

[squirrel]

10 hours ago, Muerrisch said:

He was rather peripheral to the action as I recall.

And said that his escape in part was due to wearing a blue jacket rather than a red one.

[squirrel]

9 hours ago, phil andrade said:

Why did French and SD fall out so badly ?

 

Had there been some kind of clash that accounts for it ?

 

I remember reading that SD could be antagonistic.

 

Being a trembling violet is no attribute of high command, but it does seem that there was a toxicity in the army that increased the difficulty of fighting the war.

 

Kitchener was culpable in this respect, and French was known to be mercurial.

 

Margot Asquith described Haig as a splendid soldier, but a very stupid man.  That says a lot about how much regard there was for the Army in British high society.

 

Fools were suffered gladly, because they were in a profession that was perceived as the realm of dullards.

 

Phil

SD had a short fuse by all accounts. His spat with French was that when he took over command at Aldershot he changed many things that French had instigated.

French was not altogether quick off the mark regarding his men's "comforts". SD started soldier's canteens, introduced regular leave and changed the training for the cavalry from the "arm blanche" to a mounted infantry role, much against French's view of things.

Margot Asquith had many opinions of many of the senior men in the government and the army. There were not many, including Churchill, who she did not consider to be dull, ignorant or stupid. She had a very high opinion of her husband's abilities and capabilities though which should tell you something. 

Some senior army officers were no doubt not the brightest buttons in the box, but any tight knit and hierarchical organisation is often viewed by others as populated with fools and dullards simply because they do understand the organisation nor it's role.

Edited 25 December , 2020 by squirrel

[PhilB]

49 minutes ago, squirrel said:

Some senior army officers were no doubt not the brightest buttons in the box, but any tight knit and hierarchical organisation is often viewed by others as populated with fools and dullards simply because they do understand the organisation nor it's role.

Nevertheless, Squirrel, wasn`t it the norm in late VIctorian middle to upper class families for the least promising son, being unfitted for the Church or Law, to go into the army?

[David Filsell]

All fair comment, I rather approve of dogedness. However we are really back into retrospectoscapy again which may be fun but is actually quite pointless.

That said, happy holidays.

Regards

David

 

 

Edited 25 December , 2020 by David Filsell

[phil andrade]

No harm in contemplating how soldiers were perceived by their contemporaries, high and low.

 

Whether it’s Kipling’s Tommy Atkins, or that operatic Model of the Modern Major General, there tends to be a feeling that being “ food for powder “ was the preserve of dullards or pampered and feckless younger sons.

 

Haldane must have ventured an opinion about French. There’s been a lot of publicity regarding  a new book about this statesman. I must make it my business to learn more about him.

 

Happy Christmas to all !

 

Phil

[squirrel]

As I understand it, regardless of his abilities and capabilities, French had already been promised the command of the BEF prior to the Curragh incident after which he was removed from the command. IIRC it was seniority on the Army List that was reason for him being appointed.

Earlier in this thread the question was posed regarding who would be suggested for replacing him.

Prior to the deployment of the BEF I would suggest Grierson.

Post Mons Smith Dorrien.