Lovat Scouts uniform in soldier's portrait photo? Wrong cap...

[highland]

Hello

 

I understood from family knowledge that Thomas Stewart here (born c1895)  was in the Lovat Scouts in WW1; but after searching the forum, although the lack of collar badges doesn't seem to be that uncommon, I can't find any other photos with similar headwear. Is this a LS uniform?

 

Looking forward to learning from you as ever - thanks.

[GWF1967]

2 minutes ago, highland said:

Hello

 

I understood from family knowledge that Thomas Stewart here (born c1895)  was in the Lovat Scouts in WW1; but after searching the forum, although the lack of collar badges doesn't seem to be that uncommon, I can't find any other photos with similar headwear. Is this a LS uniform?

 

Looking forward to learning from you as ever - thanks.

The cap badge appears to be Royal Artillery. 

[4thGordons]

6 minutes ago, GWF1967 said:

The cap badge appears to be Royal Artillery. 

I agree. RA.

Chris

[TullochArd]

Could be RFA ........ or RGA. Family stories do get tangled up ......according to my family knowledge my Great Uncle was in a dismounted cavalry unit the Dardeneles but turned out to be a ASC Shoeing Smith Farrier in Macedonia.  Does the family knowledge suggest any geographical clues or connections ......... perhaps Orkney?  Orkney had strong, but very separate, Lovat Scout and RGA connections during the Great War. 

 

 

Edited 13 January , 2021 by TullochArd

[FROGSMILE]

It’s quite possible that he started with the Lovat Scouts, an auxiliary unit, but then transferred under either, voluntary or compulsory circumstances to a branch of the Royal Artillery.  The photo is typical of those taken in France and Flanders in temporary studios.  You can even see the makeshift canvas backdrop tethered to the ground behind him and an ad hoc Aspidistra stand as a prop.  His uniform looks typically slept in, boots still grubby from the gun-line and, as per standing orders from 1916 onward, he carries his respirator slung across his chest wherever he goes.  The Lovat Scouts and Scottish Horse were both unusually strong regiments, each forming a brigade of three, first line units, as well as associated second and third line for each.  Originally intended as mounted brigades, once it was realised that dismounted troops were the more needed, several of the regiments units were broken up, or converted to other purposes.  I imagine that this man may be one who was found another role.

Edited 13 January , 2021 by FROGSMILE

[highland]

Thanks all - great information as always. Thomas survived - have just checked with his son, he is vague but said unprompted that he changed regiments during the war so this makes sense. Area is Bonar Bridge / East Sutherland but the Orkney info is interesting on other matters so appreciate that info.

 

I had noticed the canvas backdrop but you have really filled in the picture here; I get so excited when I have something to ask on this forum as I know I'll get such great information.

 

I need to ask another Lovat Scouts question, but if you need to redirect me to a different sub-form please do so.  A further relative in Lovat Scouts - for definite this time - is from a coastal village, not an estate worker, or a  known horseman (to my knowledge), although the family trade was carting, so animal husbandry for horses would have been a skill.

 

He signed up for LS specifically (as opposed to later conscripts); would he have had to have been an experienced horseman in order to do this?

 

Were most LS horsemen? I realise there would have been some other posts, but just wondered why he chose / was allowed to join LS. He may have been a rider, it's just not something we knew about before. Do the soldier's reg numbers help with this? 

 

Thanks

[TullochArd]

 

2 minutes ago, highland said:

........ Do the soldier's reg numbers help with this? 

 

...... they certainly do !

Edited 13 January , 2021 by TullochArd

[FROGSMILE]

10 minutes ago, highland said:

Thanks all - great information as always. Thomas survived - have just checked with his son, he is vague but said unprompted that he changed regiments during the war so this makes sense. Area is Bonar Bridge / East Sutherland but the Orkney info is interesting on other matters so appreciate that info.

 

I had noticed the canvas backdrop but you have really filled in the picture here; I get so excited when I have something to ask on this forum as I know I'll get such great information.

 

I need to ask another Lovat Scouts question, but if you need to redirect me to a different sub-form please do so.  A further relative in Lovat Scouts - for definite this time - is from a coastal village, not an estate worker, or a  known horseman (to my knowledge), although the family trade was carting, so animal husbandry for horses would have been a skill.

 

He signed up for LS specifically (as opposed to later conscripts); would he have had to have been an experienced horseman in order to do this?

 

Were most LS horsemen? I realise there would have been some other posts, but just wondered why he chose / was allowed to join LS. He may have been a rider, it's just not something we knew about before. Do the soldier's reg numbers help with this? 

 

Thanks

The Lovat Scouts were a Yeomanry cavalry (mounted auxiliary forces) regiment, and so horses were a focus.  However, in many respects their culture was more as mounted infantry and, together with equestrian skills, the most valued qualities were the abilities to read and use ground to tactical advantage.  To approach the enemy unseen (‘scout’) and then report back, thus providing eyes and ears for commanders.  With this in mind there was a significant focus upon recruiting ghillies, gamekeepers and other country workers in the early weeks and months of the war.  Men with self reliance, initiative and handiness with a rifle, who were used to living off the land, were the beau ideal for the Lovat Scouts.

Edited 13 January , 2021 by FROGSMILE

[highland]

Right, this is interesting reading, thank you.

 

Pte Alexander Ross 1690 Lovat Scouts and S/43750 Cameron Highlanders - 90% sure this is my great uncle, 10% chance it's 

Pte Alexander Ross 4394 Lovat's Scouts later 225836 10th Cameron Highlanders. Long story involving corrected entries on documents - which I only know about as this information was researched for me by someone with access to lots of paper records.

 

It leads me to another question. I still can't find the medal card, or any of the 3 documents on the ancestry search for the first person above, even with the reg numbers. Are online searches for WW1 records not to be trusted?

 

Thank you

 

[TullochArd]

25 minutes ago, highland said:

It leads me to another question. I still can't find the medal card, or any of the 3 documents on the ancestry search for the first person above, even with the reg numbers. Are online searches for WW1 records not to be trusted?

 

Looks like it ........ I got his MIC using the NA site.  15 Star, BWM and VM and entered 2b (Balkans) 26.9.15 

Edited 13 January , 2021 by TullochArd

[highland]

Ah ok, yes I can see that now, thank you - clearly the original and best source.

 

I don't think I can trust ancestry not having his full records either then? I've been told LS records have a good chance of being found...but I may be just wishful thinking. Maybe someone would know from the reg number if it's a likely find, or within a set which have been lost.