SMLE No. 1 Mk III*; SEVERAL Questions

[TheGoose]

Hey everyone!  I'm mainly a WWI and WWII helmet collector, but this weekend I decided to take my first dip into firearms!  I wanted my first to be an SMLE, and I was lucky to come across one at what I believe was a fair price!  I have several questions, mostly pertaining to the markings all over the rifle.  I have scoured the internet to no avail.  I have purchased a book on SMLEs, but it has not arrived yet. Any help is welcome!

 

1. There seems to be no maker present on the main information plate, but BSA is stamped behind the bolt on the receiver.  Is this normal?

2. The bolt, receiver, nose cap, and rear sight are all matching serial numbers.  Can I assume the barrel matches as well?  I have tried to remove the wood cover, but I am worried it will break.  Any tips on how to remove this safely?  I am worried the varnish is acting as glue.

3. The previous owner lacquered or varnished the wood.  How much does this affect value?

4. What do all the little markings mean?  I have tried to get as clear of photos as I can.

5. The stock has a place for a unit disc, but there is not one present. 

6. The trigger has a LOT of "play", I can move it back and forth pretty significantly without firing it.  Is this normal?

7. The back end of the nose cap screw does not seem to match the rest of the rifle.  Is that normal?

8. Based on the above, is it safe to assume this was a wartime used rifle?

9. What would you say the market value of the rifle is in the US?  Mine came with 75 rounds of .303 made in 1950.

 

[TheGoose]

[TheGoose]

EDIT: After more research I have found that this is a "Peddled Scheme" rifle whose receiver was made by SSA and assembled by Enfield.  So that answers question 1, but raises one more: how rare are the peddled scheme rifles?

[Mk VII]

Uncommon, but not rare (and they never made complete ones). We can't see the mark on top of the bbl very well, though it looks like Austrian Gendarmerie. 

[TheGoose]

31 minutes ago, Mk VII said:

Uncommon, but not rare (and they never made complete ones). We can't see the mark on top of the bbl very well, though it looks like Austrian Gendarmerie. 

I took a closer look and that's exactly what it is.  Thanks!  Does that mean this rifle sat in a warehouse during WWI?  Only to be given to the Austrians after WWII?  Or is it possible to have done both?

 

The barrel matches. I wound up taking it apart today.  

[JMB1943]

One of the photos shows a 3 over a 7-pointed star that contains the letter A; this indicates a part made at the Small Arms Factory in Lithgow, NSW, Australia.

 

Regards,

JMB

 

[4thGordons]

Most have been answered but

1. There seems to be no maker present on the main information plate, but BSA is stamped behind the bolt on the receiver.  Is this normal?

(Yes it is for a Standard Small Arms produced receiver)

2. The bolt, receiver, nose cap, and rear sight are all matching serial numbers.  Can I assume the barrel matches as well?  I have tried to remove the wood cover, but I am worried it will break.  Any tips on how to remove this safely?  I am worried the varnish is acting as glue.

Gentle levering upwards (I have a plastic shoe horn that was supplied with a pair at some point as an advertising ply that I have trimmed to fit) care should be taken not to break the thin fingers off

3. The previous owner lacquered or varnished the wood.  How much does this affect value?

Generally reduces it - but not massively - it is not standard. The standard service finish would have been linseed oil rubbed in

4. What do all the little markings mean?  I have tried to get as clear of photos as I can.

Most of the markings are inspections stamps of various kinds related to the manufacture, proofing, inspection and issue of the rifle. The one oddity I see with your rifle is that the magazine follower is Australian (A in a star) so originally that came from a Lithgow rifle.

5. The stock has a place for a unit disc, but there is not one present. 

Very common on mid-late war rifles

6. The trigger has a LOT of "play", I can move it back and forth pretty significantly without firing it.  Is this normal?

SMLE are 2 stage triggers so there is initial "slack" and then the firing so there is much more movement than on a modern trigger yes, however if you have doubt about the safety/reliability of the trigger have it checked by a gunsmith. I have purchased used ShtLEs where people have done nasty things to the trigger and sear so this should be checked by a competent professional.

7. The back end of the nose cap screw does not seem to match the rest of the rifle.  Is that normal?

I am not certain I understand this but if you mean that the tip of the screw is "hollowed out" then yes this is absolutely normal this is how they are.

8. Based on the above, is it safe to assume this was a wartime used rifle?

It is a rifle that was produced a year from the end for the first world war and supplied to Austria after the second world war. There is very good chance it was issued in some context in that period. Impossible to say for sure if it was "carried in battle" of course - but it almost always is! But the UK was VERY short of rifles in 1940/1 and the chances that it was issued then are very high. Check the barrel date to see if it was rebarreled (it will have been numbered to match the rifle if done officially but if you see a 20s 30s or 40s date (on the left side lower down usually close to a broad arrow) then that would increase the odds that it was issued in the Great War, refinished and rebarreled and used then supplied in WWII (and just after).

9. What would you say the market value of the rifle is in the US?  Mine came with 75 rounds of .303 made in 1950.

Depends where you are in the country and what the current market conditions are like. Probably your best bet is to look on Gunbroker (or similar) and search SOLD ITEMS to see what they are selling for. Prices on complete matching ShtLEs have climbed in recent years. Barrel condition etc is important the oesterreich gendarmerie and the fact it is an SSA means it will sell for a bit above the odds (the varnish and poss trigger issue may dent that a bit)

Generally looks like a nice example to me!

Chris

[TheGoose]

Thank you so much!  There's more to these rifles than I could have ever imagined!  Attached are photos of the markings underneath the top cover.

[4thGordons]

Original 1917 Barrel, ('17 = year)

 

All the marks look to be standard inspection and proofing stamps.

 

The one that I am not familiar with and which looks to be a more modern font is the : W.R.

Someone else may know the meaning of this but I am not sure I do.

 

Chris

[TheGoose]

Thank you so much for your help!  The search continues to find the meaning of WR.  The "A 39" also appeared on the trigger guard.  Is that the re-issue date as you were talking about?

[4thGordons]

No I don't believe A39 is an issue date. Probably an manufacturing, assembly or inspection mark.

The precise meaning of the numerous single letters and numbers are not always known and are generally thought to mark the progress of components through the various manufacturing/assembly stages. Inspection and Issue stamps and marks signifying faults, alterations and modifications, and armourer's marks are much better known as the manuals and orders governing their application are broadly available.

 

Given the date and other markings on your rifle if I had to guess at "WR" I might suggest it is "War Reserve" (IE the stockpile of rifles held in readiness) but I have nothing at all to back this up and it would appear to be in a rather concealed/awkward place for such a mark. I have an Oesterreich Gend. marked rifle so I will see if I can see anything similar when I can get to it, although if it is in the same place it will not be visible.

I do not see the marking listed in Skennerton's "The Lee Enfield" which is the most comprehensive book on the rifle type.

 

Chris

[TheGoose]

11 minutes ago, 4thGordons said:

No I don't believe A39 is an issue date. Probably an manufacturing, assembly or inspection mark.

The precise meaning of the numerous single letters and numbers are not always known and are generally thought to mark the progress of components through the various manufacturing/assembly stages. Inspection and Issue stamps and marks signifying faults, alterations and modifications, and armourer's marks are much better known as the manuals and orders governing their application are broadly available.

 

Given the date and other markings on your rifle if I had to guess at "WR" I might suggest it is "War Reserve" (IE the stockpile of rifles held in readiness) but I have nothing at all to back this up and it would appear to be in a rather concealed/awkward place for such a mark. I have an Oesterreich Gend. marked rifle so I will see if I can see anything similar when I can get to it, although if it is in the same place it will not be visible.

I do not see the marking listed in Skennerton's "The Lee Enfield" which is the most comprehensive book on the rifle type.

 

Chris

Good to know!  The WR marking is only visible after complete disassembly of the rifle

[Mk VII]

Might even be Westley Richards.

 

The Potsdam inter-allied agreements of 1945 forbade the arming, or rearming, of surrendered German military forces, but did permit the formation of police units as the Occupying Powers realised that some form of indigenous law enforcement organisations in their Zones would be needed, they couldn't do it all themselves.  The same applied in Austria, which was also divided into Soviet and Western zones. Britain supplied a unknown number of Sht. L-Es for this purpose, as they were obsolescent anyway and they wouldn't be needing them back.  The Soviets went further and formed so-called 'police' units that were equipped with the usual range of infantry smallarms, and even light artillery.  Initially ex-German weapons were used for this purpose, later WW2 Soviet stuff replaced these.