Photos of 2nd Battalion Royal Irish Fusiliers at Ferozepore, India 1908 - Named in War Diary France 1914

[Heatherm]

Greetings again from New Zealand (in total lockdown)

As it so happens, the next WW1 soldier we are researching happens to have served with the Royal Irish Fusiliers - the 9th we believe.

 

Thomas Robinson REID Royal Irish Fusiliers # 22989 L/Corporal (this from his headstone plaque) was born late 1896 in Portadown, Co Armagh, the son of Robinson REID and his wife Elizabeth.

We have been unable to find much about him prior to his arrival in NZ in 1925.

I have downloaded the war diaries of the 9th and give them to one of our team to read but because of his rank we don't expect to find him mentioned.

Can you perform your magic again for this man please.

[Ivor Anderson]

Hi Heather, this would probably deserve its own thread.

1901 Census - aged 4, living 4 Drumard Primate (Kilmore, Armagh): http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai000388637/

                        Note that his father was a widower in 1901 and remarried 9 years by 1911. Mother died 10 Nov. 1900 aged 34.

                        There is a Marriage of Robinson Reid and Isabella (Bella) Doherty 5th April 1888 in Kilmore Parish Church.

1911 census - aged 14 , living 3 Drumard (Primate), (Kilmore, Armagh): http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai001638250/

They were probably living in the same house in 1901 & 1911 as the census taker just numbered houses in each town-land as he collected them.

He was a 'Grocer's assistant' in 1911. He only went to France after 1916 as he got no 1915 star. As you say 22989 with 9th Bn. RIF.

                                      Pte. Victor Charles Watson from Lurgan (22988) who prob. joined up the same day was KIA 15th Jan. 1918.

                                      L/Cpl Marshall Wright from Portadown (22990) who prob. joined up the same day was KIA 3rd Oct. 1918.

          Pte. James Mackrell (22987) was wounded and was issued with a silver war badge. His SWB roll says he enlisted 8th Nov. 1915. 

There are 2 pension cards for Thomas R. Reid on the Western Front assoc. site - discharged 20 March 1919. They may give other details.

Born 21st October 1896. BC from irishgenealogy.ie ("Drumard Primate' is a townland).

Edited 23 August , 2021 by Ivor Anderson

[Ivor Anderson]

10 hours ago, Jervis said:

GG Uncle Laurence Neville, 2734. Entered F&F in Feb 1915 and served through to 1919

His low service number suggests that Laurence Neville joined up prior to WW1.

2702 Pte. Edward Coyle (same medal roll page - with 2nd Bn.) enlisted 23 Jan. 1911 with 4th Bn. in Cavan (SWB roll) - discharged 1916.

2728 Pte. Joseph Hull Fisher (Medal roll 2nd Bn.) also entered France 16 Feb. 1915 with the 2nd Bn..

Cpl. Patrick Andrews 2726 joined the 4th Bn. in Bailieborough, Co. Cavan on 20th March 1911. He also entered France on 16 Feb. 1915 (tfr from 4th Reserve Bn.). He has a surviving service record on Ancestry showing that he deserted 2 Nov. 1915: 

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/1219/images/miuk1914d_120375-00917?treeid=&personid=&hintid=&queryId=5acf3401b04b9fa2b433b8ecfc30851d&usePUB=true&_phsrc=AHE14233&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&pId=6529

My GGF Robert John Sproule (then Sgt. 7398) was based at Cavan Barracks when his eldest child was born in 1912!

Edited 23 August , 2021 by Ivor Anderson

[Heatherm]

2 hours ago, Ivor Anderson said:

Hi Heather, this would probably deserve its own thread.

1901 Census - aged 4, living 4 Drumard Primate (Kilmore, Armagh): http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai000388637/

                        Note that his father was a widower in 1901 and remarried 9 years by 1911. Mother died 10 Nov. 1900 aged 34.

                        There is a Marriage of Robinson Reid and Isabella (Bella) Doherty 5th April 1888 in Kilmore Parish Church.

1911 census - aged 14 , living 3 Drumard (Primate), (Kilmore, Armagh): http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai001638250/

They were probably living in the same house in 1901 & 1911 as the census taker just numbered houses in each town-land as he collected them.

He was a 'Grocer's assistant' in 1911. He only went to France after 1916 as he got no 1915 star. As you say 22989 with 9th Bn. RIF.

                                      Pte. Victor Charles Watson from Lurgan (22988) who prob. joined up the same day was KIA 15th Jan. 1918.

                                      L/Cpl Marshall Wright from Portadown (22990) who prob. joined up the same day was KIA 3rd Oct. 1918.

          Pte. James Mackrell (22987) was wounded and was issued with a silver war badge. His SWB roll says he enlisted 8th Nov. 1915. 

There are 2 pension cards for Thomas R. Reid on the Western Front assoc. site - discharged 20 March 1919. They may give other details.

Born 21st October 1896. BC from irishgenealogy.ie ("Drumard Primate' is a townland).

Thanks Ivor. Actually I did rethink adding my query on this post and started another thread. This information is great thanks.

regards

Heather

[Jervis]

6 hours ago, Ivor Anderson said:

His low service number suggests that Laurence Neville joined up prior to WW1.

2702 Pte. Edward Coyle (same medal roll page - with 2nd Bn.) enlisted 23 Jan. 1911 with 4th Bn. in Cavan (SWB roll) - discharged 1916.

2728 Pte. Joseph Hull Fisher (Medal roll 2nd Bn.) also entered France 16 Feb. 1915 with the 2nd Bn..

Cpl. Patrick Andrews 2726 joined the 4th Bn. in Bailieborough, Co. Cavan on 20th March 1911. He also entered France on 16 Feb. 1915 (tfr from 4th Reserve Bn.). He has a surviving service record on Ancestry showing that he deserted 2 Nov. 1915: 

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/1219/images/miuk1914d_120375-00917?treeid=&personid=&hintid=&queryId=5acf3401b04b9fa2b433b8ecfc30851d&usePUB=true&_phsrc=AHE14233&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&pId=6529

My GGF Robert John Sproule (then Sgt. 7398) was based at Cavan Barracks when his eldest child was born in 1912!

A late starter! 

Thanks for that information Ivor. I had not considered possibility he was a pre-war reservist.  Very Interesting. 

Jervis

[Dennis]

On 26/06/2021 at 08:14, Ivor Anderson said:

Looking at this photo of the 2nd Bn. Colour Sergeants in 1908.

I wonder if that is CSM Timothy O'Malley 5367 on the right, who was KIA with the 1st Bn. on 11 May 1917 aged 43: https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/780004/TIMOTHY O'MALLEY/

I wonder if G. Coomber became 2nd Lt. (later Lt.) George Scott Coomber of the 2nd RIF (att'd 3rd Bn.) in WW1? 

That seems to be Henry Scovell 3218 on the left who enlisted March 1889. He must have retired pre WW1.

Hi Ivor,  Dennis (Danny) O'Malley here.  I see you mentioned my grandfather's name, C.S.M. Timothy O'Malley 5367.  I am very proud to say I travelled to where my grandfather fell on The 100th anniversary of his death May 11 2017. He fell in Arras at a Chemical works and has no known grave.  We have very little information on him. My trip to Arras was very emotional.  Thank God I went. Thank you for remembering him. My Dad was 6 months old when Timothy fell.  His activity in those 6 months are still a mystery to us. Many Thanks once again,

Dennis O'Malley.

[FROGSMILE]

On 22/08/2021 at 23:58, Jervis said:

Thank you for the book suggestions and information Ivor. Much appreciated. They are some brilliant photographs of your GGF posted too. 

My interest in the 2/RIF is through my GG Uncle Laurence Neville, 2734. Entered F&F in Feb 1915 and served through to 1919. I assume he was trained in 1914/1915 and may well have been under the instruction of CQMS Sproule! 

Just a minor point to bear in mind Ivor, but the 2nd Battalion RIF had previously been the old 89th (Princess Victoria’s) Regiment of Foot and did not become fusiliers until their merger with the 87th in July 1881.  Individual battalions were commonly very jealous of their discrete lineage and often referred to themselves by their precedence number, especially when playing sport.  It was much less of a mouthful to shout “come on the 89th”, etc. I mention this in case you want to seek out a history of the 89th.

Edited 17 August , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[6RRF]

2 hours ago, FROGSMILE said:

Just a minor point to bear in mind Ivor, but the 2nd Battalion RIF had previously been the old 89th (Princess Victoria’s) Regiment of Foot and did not become fusiliers until their merger with the 87th in July 1881.  Individual battalions were commonly very jealous of their discrete lineage and often referred to themselves by their precedence number, especially when playing sport.  It was much less of a mouthful to shout “come on the 89th”, etc. I mention this in case you want to seek out a history of the 89th.

This "rivalry" could be very marked. The 71st and 74th were combined to form the HLI, but the two battalions actually hated each other. 2HLI insisted on referring to themselves as the 74th and it was only the raising of multiple battalions during WW1 which seemed to reconcile them.

Edited 17 August , 2022 by 6RRF

[FROGSMILE]

6 minutes ago, 6RRF said:

This "rivalry" could be very marked. The 71st and 74th were combined to form the HLI, but the two battalions actually hated each other. 2HLI insisted on referring to themselves as the 74th and it was only the raising of multiple battalions during WW1 which seemed to reconcile them.

Yes that’s right.  They even accentuated that situation by dressing differently in a variety of ways, albeit without anything overly drastic.

Edited 17 August , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[Dennis]

2 hours ago, 6RRF said:

This "rivalry" could be very marked. The 71st and 74th were combined to form the HLI, but the two battalions actually hated each other. 2HLI insisted on referring to themselves as the 74th and it was only the raising of multiple battalions during WW1 which seemed to reconcile them.

 

Thanks a million.  I'm totally new to a forum. It's a wonderful collection of information. 

[Ivor Anderson]

On 17/08/2022 at 12:31, Dennis said:

Hi Ivor,  Dennis (Danny) O'Malley here.  I see you mentioned my grandfather's name, C.S.M. Timothy O'Malley 5367.  I am very proud to say I travelled to where my grandfather fell on The 100th anniversary of his death May 11 2017. He fell in Arras at a Chemical works and has no known grave.  We have very little information on him. My trip to Arras was very emotional.  Thank God I went. Thank you for remembering him. My Dad was 6 months old when Timothy fell.  His activity in those 6 months are still a mystery to us.

Hi Dennis,

He was a career soldier pre WW1. He appears to have enlisted in 1895, aged 21 (43 in 1917), prob after completing a trade, going by his service number (5367):

https://armyservicenumbers.blogspot.com/2011/02/royal-irish-fusiliers-1st-2nd.html

He may well have served in South Africa prior to the 2nd RDF moving to India in 1902. He was a tall man (India 1908): 

Edited 1 February by Ivor Anderson

[Ivor Anderson]

Tom Evelyn O'Leary was a Bvt Colonel in the photo in the OP. He became a Brigadier-General in WW1:

Initial post photo - India 1908:

Edited 16 June by Ivor Anderson
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