RFA Badge

[oscarquebec]

I'm asking for help to identify a badge worn on the right arm of one of the men in the attached photograph of a group of seven from C/190 RFA. The photograph includes my grandfather front row right (looking head on at the photo). Front row left I've highlighted the badge in question. Any help would be much appreciated.

[The Inspector]

Hi, 

I think it may be a horseshoe indicating he is an RFA Farrier Corporal. See..https://www.britishmilitarybadges.co.uk/products/farrier-and-shoeing-smith-proficiency-arm--sleeve-trade-badge-4.html..

Regards Barry

Edited 7 July , 2021 by The Inspector

[MaxD]

Both a Shoeing Smith and a  Farrier wore the same badge at that rank level.

MaxD

[The Inspector]

Hi MaxD and all,

Beat me to the link..

Regards Barry 

[FROGSMILE]

This is the badge worn by farriers and shoeing smiths (the former more qualified than the latter via trade testing).  Notice how the Farrier Quarter-Master-Sergeant in the photo below (the senior man in the photo and a warrant officer class II after 1915) wears his horseshoe badge superimposed on his stripes, with the RA SNCOs gun badge above.

 

Edited 7 July , 2021 by FROGSMILE

[oscarquebec]

Thank you all, most helpful as always

[MaxD]

1 hour ago, FROGSMILE said:

Notice how the Farrier Quarter-Master-Sergeant

Hence my cagey phrase "at that rank level" because I wasn' sure of the full detail higher up the rank structure but was confident my friend Frogsmile wold have chapter and verse as always.

 

MaxD

[FROGSMILE]

21 minutes ago, MaxD said:

Hence my cagey phrase "at that rank level" because I wasn' sure of the full detail higher up the rank structure but was confident my friend Frogsmile wold have chapter and verse as always.

 

MaxD

You were bang on the money my old friend 👍

[FROGSMILE]

1 hour ago, oscarquebec said:

Thank you all, most helpful as always

I’m glad to help.  Notice the whistle attached to your grandfather’s right chest pocket.  As a corporal he assisted the sergeant who commanded a detachment of gunners and sub-section of equipment (one gun plus all the necessary draught animals and ancillaries for it to operate).  In the din of action the whistle could be used to issue basic commands when the human voice could not necessarily be heard, depending upon the proximity of the other sub-sections and the rate of firing.  Although a sub-section was part of a section, that was itself part of a battery, this semi autonomous organisation was very flexible and meant that if necessary guns could be detached for individual tasks, or even the intimate support of Infantry, if necessary firing over open sights.  This was not usually seen after the occasional extremis of 1914, but in the 2nd Boer War and previous Colonial warfare it was not uncommon and individual guns or sections were often positioned at the corner of Infantry squares.

NB.  It’s a little sad that what was once a deeply intimate and collaborative working relationship between infantry and artillery that had lasted centuries gradually became more distant, as the indirect fire operation of the garrison artillery gradually became adopted by their brethren of field and horse artillery.  Whereas infantrymen and gunners had messed and bivouacked together in the same location, with infantry protecting guns, and guns providing fire support, right up at the sharp end, as the guns gained in range and firepower a necessary distance grew between them.

Edited 7 July , 2021 by FROGSMILE

[MaxD]

Grandfather has 3 overseas service stripes which suggest, as 190 Bde went overseas in May 1916, that he may well have served in another unit overseas before that date, do you have his record?  He also has a wound stripe.

You may have all this already?

 

MaxD

[ss002d6252]

1 hour ago, MaxD said:

Grandfather has 3 overseas service stripes which suggest, as 190 Bde went overseas in May 1916, that he may well have served in another unit overseas before that date, do you have his record?  He also has a wound stripe.

You may have all this already?

 

MaxD

It would depend when the picture was taken - his first chevron could be qualified for in May 1916, the second in May 1917 and the third in May 1918. The picture must be after the very end of 1917/start of 1918 as that was when the chevrons started to be issued. So, it could be 3 chevrons and only service overseas with 190 Brigade but we'd need more information.

Craig

[MaxD]

Indeed Craig, happy to be set straight again!  I'd overlooked the fact that the first chevron was awarded when the man arrived overseas so his first could well have been, as you say, awarded for a May 1916 arrival.

 

MaxD

[battiscombe]

I think I am right in thinking that in November 1916 C/190 gained a section from C/183 - becoming a 6 gun battery, so there is a significant chance that he had joined the unit at that time .. There were also, I believe some other [complicated] movements of batteries  between brigades earlier in 1916.. but certainly there is a fair chance that he was not in C/190 throughout.

Further to that. there is a preembarkation photo of the original  C/190 here.. you may wish to see if your gf is there.. I cant spot him.. Was he from the Wimbledon/Mitcham area? His service number may also indicate his original unit..

https://mitchamwarmemorial.wordpress.com/2017/07/27/flanders-1917-wimbledons-own-190th-brigade-rfa/

Edited 8 July , 2021 by battiscombe

[MaxD]

Much the same thought had prompted my thought about earlier arrival but as Craig rightly says, without even knowing who he is, pure guesswork.

MaxD

[battiscombe]

but checking other Forum posts on C/190..  it seems that this continues some 2012 posts and it seems he gf is on that  original photo.. so our speculations are unnecessary..

[oscarquebec]

Yes I can confirm that he was from Wimbledon and is front row nearest the camera in wordpress link mentioned by battiscombe.