Photograph - B Company, Royal Military College, September 1914

[mrfrank]

I initially thought all these three in the back row would be unidentifiable due to the fact that nothing remains of their names due to the damage.
However, whilst confirming that they do not have a Company nominal roll for the exact date of the photo, the Sandhurst Curator kindly forwarded me a copy of the Company nominal roll contained within the ‘RMC Record’ dated July 1914 and the ‘1st Division’ names contained a number present in the photograph. From this I found an image on-line of Edward Henry Innes (who was commissioned into the Middlesex regiment) that bears a striking resemblance to the chap on the right.
The two on the left remain unidentified.  
The extract from the record does lead on to another question though (as it appears to contain two cadets commissioned into Cavalry Regiments). Am I right in thinking that K Company that had been formed in the second half of 1913 was exclusively for cadets destined for cavalry regiments?

Edited 25 January , 2022 by mrfrank

[mrfrank]

I’ve added Claude Alexander Huskisson to the list of those featured in this photo. ‘C A Huskisson’ caused me some problems as I couldn’t find anyone of that name listed in the LG in the same time-frame that all the others obtained their regular commissions. 
However, I did find a Claude Alexander Huskisson who was killed in action in June 1917 whilst attached to 1st Hampshire. For whatever reason, seems this chap obtained his commission in June 1915 (much later than the others) with a territorial battalion 6th Hants.

This battalion was in India/Mesopotamia therefore I assume he was immediately attached to the 1st battalion. 
Confirmation it is definitely him is that he is included on the Hampshire Regiment panel in the RMC chapel as falling in 1917. 
Perhaps someone could enlighten me as to why he seemingly commissioned into the 6th battalion?

[FROGSMILE]

15 hours ago, mrfrank said:

I’ve added Claude Alexander Huskisson to the list of those featured in this photo. ‘C A Huskisson’ caused me some problems as I couldn’t find anyone of that name listed in the LG in the same time-frame that all the others obtained their regular commissions. 
However, I did find a Claude Alexander Huskisson who was killed in action in June 1917 whilst attached to 1st Hampshire. For whatever reason, seems this chap obtained his commission in June 1915 (much later than the others) with a territorial battalion 6th Hants.

This battalion was in India/Mesopotamia therefore I assume he was immediately attached to the 1st battalion. 
Confirmation it is definitely him is that he is included on the Hampshire Regiment panel in the RMC chapel as falling in 1917. 
Perhaps someone could enlighten me as to why he seemingly commissioned into the 6th battalion?

That does seem unusual.  Perhaps he was sick and took some time to recover, or he might have struggled to reach the grade necessary for a regular commission.  Finding his RMC record would probably reveal something.  I know that the Sandhurst historical archive does have some information about past cadets, but I’m unsure as to its extent and WW1 led to unprecedented numbers, so whether everything was retained seems doubtful.  Do you know if his eventual commission was of a Territorial Force type?  That would explain his late arrival and unit, in that he might have failed the grade as a regular, but later on achieved the necessary requirements as a Territorial, whose demands were different.

Edited 1 February , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[mrfrank]

Really don’t know the details regarding type of commission Bob apart from him appearing in the Army Lists under 6th Hants with a commissioning date of June 1915. I did think he may have been delayed by sickness perhaps. The fact that his name appears on the memorial in the RMC Chapel suggests that he did complete the course I would think. 

[mrfrank]

Identified this individual as probably Tristram Hugh Massy-Beresford purely on a few scattered fragments of letters remaining. Commissioned into The Rifle Brigade. If anyone can confirm it’s him I’d be glad to hear from them.  

[FROGSMILE]

29 minutes ago, mrfrank said:

Really don’t know the details regarding type of commission Bob apart from him appearing in the Army Lists under 6th Hants with a commissioning date of June 1915. I did think he may have been delayed by sickness perhaps. The fact that his name appears on the memorial in the RMC Chapel suggests that he did complete the course I would think. 

It is definitely odd for a regular officer to have his very first posting/assignment, some time after attending RMC, with a TF battalion.  I think there’s definitely a story behind this.  I can only suggest that you consult with the RMC archivist with whom you’ve developed some contact concerning the photo.  It’s not impossible that he might have attended RMC, subsequently resigned before joining his regular regiment, but then later (after circumstances or feelings changed) applied for a commission with the TF. 

Edited 1 February , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[mrfrank]

10 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

It is definitely odd for a regular officer to have his very first posting/assignment, some time after attending RMC, with a TF battalion.  I think there’s definitely a story behind this.  I can only suggest that you consult with the RMC archivist with whole you’ve developed some contact concerning the photo.  It’s not impossible that he might have attended RMC, subsequently resigned before joining his regular regiment, but then subsequently (after circumstances or feelings changed) applied for a commission with the TF. 

Good suggestion. I shall ask the question of him. 

[FROGSMILE]

1 hour ago, mrfrank said:

Identified this individual as probably Tristram Hugh Massy-Beresford purely on a few scattered fragments of letters remaining. Commissioned into The Rifle Brigade. If anyone can confirm it’s him I’d be glad to hear from them.  

@stiletto_33853and @MBrockwayhave a special interest in the two old rifle regiments so hopefully this shout out might draw their attention.

[MBrockway]

 

Highlights: Tim Massy-Beresford was commissioned 2/Lt on 11 Nov 1914 and served 3/RB 1915-1918.  Later OC 1/RB 1940.  Educated Eton and Sandhurst.

Andy,  you'll have lots on this important RB officer, but possibly not his date of death of 21 Jul 1987.  Any obit in that year's RGJ Chronicle is unlikely to have a photo of him at this age though.

The only photo I have of Tim is as a much older man.  There's certainly a resemblance, but I couldn't say a definite match I'm afraid.

His younger brother, Desmond, was also RB.  Educated Cheltenham, Glenalmond and McGill.  Born 1905, so I assume his rifles service was post-war.  He died in 1966, so may have an obit in the final RB Chronicle.

Tim's son, Major Michael James Massy-Beresford, born 1935, educated Eton, Sandhurst, Jesus, Cambridge and then RMCS, was also a greenjacket, retiring as a major in 1/RGJ.  He has written on 2/OBLI in WW2 including the famous action at Pegasus Bridge.

Mark

 

 

 

[stiletto_33853]

Unfortunately there is not a picture of Tristram in the 1987 RGJ Chronicles. As per Mark I only have a picture of him later in life

3rd RB, joining them in the field in June 1915. In October 1915 he was severely wounded and it was not until the Spring of 1918 he managed to persuade a medical board to allow him to return to the battalion. In October 1918, commanding a company in the attack on St. Aubert, he was wounded again.

He became a POW in 1942 in Malaya.

ADC to HM the King 1947-49

DSO 1945, MC 1919, quite a distinguished career ending up as a Brigadier retiring in 1949.

No record that I have come across and unfortunately I cannot help with a picture.

 

Andy

[mrfrank]

Thanks to both for the comprehensive information you’ve provided. Much appreciated and from the scattered letters remaining, I’m pretty sure it’ll be him. 

[MBrockway]

As a snippet of very minor interest, Tim Massy-Beresford, as a captain, was assistant commander of No 4 Battalion at the Greenjackets O.T.C. Camp held at Tidworth 28 Jul to 05 Aug 1925.  Stumbled across this as the contingent from my school - King's, Worcester - was in this battalion at the camp.

Mark

Edited 7 February , 2022 by MBrockway

[stiletto_33853]

Massy-Beresford Obit from the 1987 Royal Green Jackets Chronicle

[Margaretnolan]

I’ve been following the thread Casualty Lists and I see Charles Raymond Buckworth. Seaforth Highlanders att. MCG.
Images attached.

Margaret

 

 

Edited 14 February , 2022 by Margaretnolan

[PRC]

On 16/01/2022 at 23:21, FROGSMILE said:

It will be interesting to try and learn their fates.  I can imagine @PRCand @ss002d6252 getting stuck into these names.

@mrfrank

Apologies I did take a look when frogsmile gave me a shout out, but as everything seemed in hand I wasn’t sure that I could add any value. My take on what was being looked for was information about the officers whose names were missing from the legend underneath the photograph. That seemed fairly binary – either you recognised a face or you didn’t.

Information also seemed to be popping up piecemeal – all good stuff but difficult to keep track of what had and hadn’t been answered.

So being a bear of small brain I’ve finally tried to get round to looking at this thread by breaking the task down into bite sized chunks.

First of all I stitched the two halfs of the group photo together, and then took a crop of the top row. I’ve added numbers simply to make it easier to refer back to the individual concerned.

I then added againt each number below

-        What I believed the relevant name was in the legend
-        A summary of the information supplied in the thread so far
-        The additional basic information that I could pull together along with any side by side photo comparisons I could turn up.

I’m sure it probably won’t add anything to what you already know, but hopefully will make it easier for others to spot where the gaps are.

In particular I suspect these are all public schoolboys, and almost certainly attended the OTC at their school \ college. It may well be that school archivists will be able to turn up a photo to enable a comparison to be made – as well as OTC they are likely to be active on the sporting side. So one element I tried to pick up on is the relevant public school for those for whom there is no comparison picture.

Top Row

1)     H.W. Fordham \ Hugh Alexander Fordham 2nd Bn. Northumberland Fusiliers \ LG 10 November 1914 Page 9141 Gentleman Cadet RMC to be Second Lieutenant dated 11th November 1914. MiC shows landed France 18th January 1915 with the 2nd Battalion. Subsequently Acting Major 3rd Brigade, RAF. 1914/15 star issued by Army, VM & BWM by the Air Ministry.Address March 1919 3rd Brigade Headquarters, RAF. EF9 returned 9.1.21 – contact address Cavendish Club, 119 Piccadilly, (London), W1.

Photo and bio here.  All image rights remain with the original sources  https://www.ashwellmuseum.org.uk/history/people-2/armed_forces_veterans/roll_of_honour_-ww1/hugh_alexander_fordham Same source records he went to Sandhurst August 1914 and died 11th November 1986. Gets a mention in this blog post https://airwar19141918.wordpress.com/tag/hugh-alexander-fordham/

2)     J.P. Campbell \ Ian Patrick Campbell, 1st Bn. Cameron Highlanders, died 09May15, aged 18. \ LG 10 November 1914 Page 9142 Gentleman Cadet RMC to be Second Lieutenant dated 11th November 1914. No date of entry into a Theatre of War – just that he was entitled to the 1914/15 Star as well as the VM and BWM. No details of who claimed medals. MiC is noted deceased 9th May 1915. SDGW has him Killed in Action. CWGC records him as believed to be buried in Guards Cemetery, Windy Corner, Guinchy, France. Son of Patrick Campbell. https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/194542/ian-patrick-campbell/ IWM have his picture from the Bond of Sacrifice

– shown here for comparison purposes only and all image rights remain with the original sources. Ian is stated to have entered Sandhurst in August 1914. https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205291779

3)     D.W. Hammond \ Douglas William Hammond, 2nd Bn Buffs, died 24May 15, aged 18. But could be Frederick William Hammond, Kings Own Scottish Borderers. First initial unclear on picture and both men commissioned 11th November 1914. Picture of Douglas William in Volume 2 of Bond of Sacrifice. \ LG 10 November 1914 Page 9141 Gentleman Cadet RMC to be Second Lieutenant dated 11th November 1914.(Both). MiC for Douglas William Hammond shows he first landed in France 20th January 1915. Noted he was killed 24th May 1915. A parent – Egerton Hammond, (presumably father) made an application for the medals of Douglas in July 1921. Address given was St Alban’s Court, Nonington, Near Dover. SDGW records Douglas was Killed in Action. CWGC shows he has no known grave and is remembered on the Ypres (Menin Gate) Memorial. Additional family information is that he was the Son of Egerton and Ina Hammond, of St. Alban's Court, Nonington, Dover. https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/908646/douglas-william-hammond/ The Bond of Sacrifice picture of him can be found on the Imperial War Museum site here https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205300597

It is shown here  for comparison purposes only and all image rights remain with the original sources.                                                                                                                       
MiC for Frederick William Hammond shows him as 2nd Bn. K.O.S.B. and first landed France January 1915. He was released from his commission before the end of the hostilities and applied for the Silver War Badge. When he applied for his 1914/15 Star in December 1918 he gave an address of Finborough Cottage, Stowmarket, Suffolk. He would subsequently move to The Grange, Beyton, Bury St. Edmunds, Suffolk. Looks like there may be Pension Cards for him on Fold3.No obvious match for a Frederick Hammond of a likely aged in the Finborough \ Stowmarket \ Bury St Edmunds area in the 1921 Census of England & Wales.

4)     A.A. Ray? \ Arthur Augustus Raymond, 2nd Royal Irish Rifles, died 01Aug15, aged 19. / LG Supplement to 30th September 1914. Gentleman Cadets to be Second Lieutenant dated 1st October 1914,Page 7779. MiC shows he first landed in France on the 25th November 1914 By the time he deceased on the 1st August 1915 he had been promoted Lieutenant. His sister, Mrs R.H. Lloyd, of Rotherfield Greys Rectory, Henley-on-Thames would apply for his medals. SDGW records him as Killed in Action. CWGC records that he has no known grave and is remembered on the Ypres (Menin Gate) Memorial. The additional family information is that he was the Son of the late Captain H W Raymond, Royal Irish Rifles. https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/1625543/arthur-augustus-raymond/ A picture of Arthur can be found on the Imperial War Museum website here https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205387585

It is shown here for comparison purposes only and all image rights remain with the original sources. No obvious missing person enquiry received by the International Committee of the Red Cross.                                                                       

5)     P.K. Fitz-Gerald \ Patrick Keane Fitz-Gerald, Kings Royal Rifle Corps. / MiC for Patrick Keane Fitzgerald shows him as first landing in France on the 16th December 1914. He applied for the 1914 Star in October 1919 – he was ruled ineligible – giving an address of Twyford Manor, Buckingham. When he returned the EF9 form in June 1920 his address was Sealford Hall, Melton Mowbray, Leicestershire. May be a co-incidence but a Reginald Patrick Fitzgerald would serve as a Officer aboard Royal Navy submarines in WW2 and into the fifties. Born Chelsea, London on the 30th May 1921, his parents are recorded as Captain Patrick Keane Fitzgerald (1894-1957) and Violet Hemsley Duncan. (1885-1968). Pictures of the Navy Officer can be seen here https://www.unithistories.com/officers/RN_officersF.html If the father is the right Patrick Fitzgerald, then on the 1911 Census of England & Wales there is a 16 year old P.K. FitzGerald, born Westminster, London, who was recorded as a Boarding Schoolboy at Greshams School, Cromer Road, Holt. May be a co-incidence, but on the line above is a 14 year old Robert A. Fitz-Gerald, born Kensingston, London.  I struggle a bit with the Greshams WW1 site – many of the photos just have a reference rather than a name, but there are many OTC and sports photos for the period leading up to the outbreak of war. https://www.greshamsatwar.co.uk/default.aspx The site also has contact details for the school archivist.

6)     C.F. Woodward \ Charles Francis Woodward, 1st Bn, Royal Welsh Fusiliers, died 20May15, aged 20. / LG Supplement to 30th September 1914. Gentleman Cadets to be Second Lieutenant dated 1st October 1914,Page 7778. His MiC gives very little information – it would appear no medals were issued – other than to state he died of wounds on the 20th May 1915. SDGW also records that he died of wounds. CWGC records him as buried Bethune Town Cemetery, France. Additional family information is he was the Son of Col. Charles Cunningham Woodward. https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/61893/charles-francis-woodward/ His Bond of Sacrifice entry records that he entered Sandhurst in December 1913. It adds he incurred severe wounds in the back at Festurbert on the night of the 16th/17th May 1915, leading to his death in hospital at Bethune. The Bond of Sacrifice picture of him can be found on the Imperial War Museum site here https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205391106 The Royal Welch Fusiliers has a second, lower quality image, which can be found here https://rwfmuseum.org.uk/faces-of-the-fallen/face.php?i=10924

Both are shown here  for comparison purposes only and all image rights remain with the original sources.

7)     Blank

8)     Blank

9)     Blank \ Possibly Edward Henry Innes, Middlesex Regiment. / LG Supplement to 30th September 1914. Gentleman Cadets to be Second Lieutenant dated 1st October 1914,Page 7778. His MiC shows he originally went out to France on the 25th October 1914 attached from the Middlesex Regiment to the Bedfordshire Regiment. His highest rank in a Theatre of War would be Captain. When he applied for his medals in December 1924 he gave a contact address of c\o F. Dept., Lloyds Bank Ltd,. Cox & Kings Branch, 6 Pall Mall, (London) SW1. The BBC Wall of Rememberance for the Great War includes a picture of an Edward Henry Innes, born 1895, died 1965, who served with the Bedfordshire and Hertfordshire Regiment. The contributor, Vanessa Wagstaff, included extracts from his letters. “Eddie wrote vivid letters from hospital about the war and his injuries: from Allied Forces Base Hospital, Boulogne, France: my arm hurts all day and night, I must keep my mind off it, I am afraid the people at home in dear old comfortable England will never realise what a tragedy this war is and the troops have suffered. All the talking in the world could not describe the happenings in the firing line. When is this living hell going to end? Another letter: 14th Nov, 'I have been in hospital a fortnight today. I was wounded a the battle of Ypres. I was hit my a shell which exploded almost right on top of me. I found myself lying on the ground with my right arm shot through, I managed to struggle to a house and they got first aid while I was lying there part of roof was blown off.' 'I can't see out of my right eye, I was unconscious for three days, this war is hell. I saw some terrible sights. I will tell you about them some day....' Eddie recovered, his arm permanently shorter, retired as Captain. Born in Bermuda, died in Lausanne, Switzerland. https://www.bbc.co.uk/remembrance/wall/record/8438

It is shown here for comparison purposes only and all image rights remain with the original sources  By the time Edward arrived in France on the 25th October 1914 both the 1st Battalion and the 2nd Battalion were in France & Flanders.The War Diary entry for the 2nd Battalion of the Bedfordshire Regiment on the 29th October 1914 records that 2Lt H. Innes Middlesex regt joined the Battalion. Two days later the Battalion came under heavy attack near Inverness Copse. The War Diary entry for the day states the Battalion was only left with four officers – and Edward Innes was not one of them. Given the dates and location, I suspect the letter from Eddie referred to above relates to this action. http://www.bedfordregiment.org.uk/2ndbn/2ndbtn1914diary.html

10) C.H. Hordern \ Charles Hubert Hordern, Cameronians. / LG Supplement to 30th September 1914. Gentleman Cadets to be Second Lieutenant dated 1st October 1914,Page 7778. His MiC shows he originally went out to France on the 2nd February 1915 but to serve with the 2nd Bn. Kings Royal Rifle Corps and as a Lieutenant. His highest rank in a Theatre of War would be Captain. When he applied for his medals in April 1924 he gave a contact address of c\o O.C. 1/KRRC, Aldershot. By the time he returned the EF9 in October 1922 this had been amended to St Nicholas Vicarage, Brighton. Lots on the web about his parents and his children, but not so much on the man himself. May be a co-incidence but the 1911 Census of England & Wales has a 14 year old Charles Horden, born Singleton, Sussex, who was recorded as a pupil at Eton College.The publication The List of Etonians who fought in the Great War, 1914-19, includes on page 155 Captain C. H. Hordern, K.R.R.C attached Seaforth Highlanders, wounded 3 times, served in France. https://archive.org/details/listofetonianswh00eton/page/130/mode/2up?q=Hordern&view=theater The civil birth records for England & Wales doesn’t have any likely match in the Sussex area – but there is the birth of a Charles Hubert Hordern which was registered in the Paddington District of London in Q3 1896.

11) Blank

12) A.B.T.Simpson \ Anthony Bean Tracy Simpson, 2nd Bn, West Riding Regiment – died 06May15, aged 19. \ LG 10 November 1914 Page 9141 Gentleman Cadet RMC to be Second Lieutenant dated 11th November 1914. As Anthony BEAU Tracy Simpson. Officers Long Papers as Anthony BEAU Tracy Simpson, Duke of Wellington’s (West Riding Regiment). https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C1067913 Can see the MiC in the National Archive catalogue, (as Anthony B Tracy Simpson), but couldn’t find it on Ancestry. Watermarked preview versions shows landed in France ?? March 1915 to serve with the 2nd Battalion. The second forename is on the card but could be Beau or Bean. Card noted that he was Missing – Death accepted 6-5-15. His CWGC webpage adds nothing – he has no known grave and is remembered on the Ypres (Menin Gate) Memorial. https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/916830/anthony-bean-tracey-simpson/ No obvious missing person enquiry on the International Committee of the Red Cross website. FMP says it has a British Red Cross & Order of St John Enquiry List entry for an A.B.T. Simpson plus references to an ABT Simpson on War memorials at Avon, two in Bedfordshire and one possibly in Surrey as ABTS Simpson. The IWM has a picture of him taken from a report – probably newspaper. The associated caption adds that he was missing after being gassed at Hill 60. https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205388646

It is shown here for comparison purposes only and all image rights remain with the original sources.

13) J.L.R. Thomson \ John Leslie Rowan Thompson, Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders.\ Possibly LG 10 November 1914 Page 9142 Gentleman Cadet RMC to be Second Lieutenant dated 11th November 1914 as JOHN LESLIE THOMSON. No obvious officers long papers under either surname spelling. MiC is in the name of John Leslie Rowan THOMSON, Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders. No equivalent for THOMPSON. He first landed in France in January 1915. EF9 returned June 1922 – contact address is The Braes, Callander, Perthshire. Some genealogy sites & sources have the surname hypenated as Rowan-Thompson.Whether there is a picture of him in the announcement of his wedding in The Gentlewoman dated 8th November 1919 may be worth checking out –

Image courtesy FindMyPast, should also be available on the British Newspaper Archive website. May be a co-incidence but on the 1911 Census of England & Wales there is a 16 year old John Leslie Thomson, born Clapham, Middlesex, who was recorded as a Boarding School pupil at St. Nicholas School, Sandgate Lane, Folkestone, Kent. Unfortunately appears to be long since gone, and so probably has any archive. Find a Grave has a picture of the headstone of a Major John Leslie Rowan-Thomson, Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders, 1896-1981, in All Saints Churchyard, Tunworth, Hampshire. https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/101249534/john-leslie-rowan-thomson  There is no likely match for the John Leslie Thomson from the 1911 Census in the civil birth record for England & Wales – that student would have been born c1894/95. The civil death records for John Leslie R. Thomson aka John Leslie Rowan-Thomson that was recorded in the North East Hampshire District in Q4 1981 shows that his date of birth was given as the 28th February 1896. Checking the Quarterly Army Lists for the last quarter if 1919, there is a John Leslie Thomson who is recorded on the list of non-effective officers. He was born 28th February 1896, commissioned 11th November 1914, promoted Lieutenant 23rd September 1915 and retired from the Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders 31st August 1917. https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/87990597

Links to the the relevant London Gazette pages referred to are:-

LG Supplement to 30th September 1914. Gentleman Cadets to be Second Lieutenant dated 1st October 1914.

Page 7777 https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/28920/supplement/7777
Page 7778 https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/28920/supplement/7778
Page 7779 https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/28920/supplement/7779

LG 10 November 1914 Gentleman Cadets to be Second Lieutenant dated 11th November 1914.

Page 9141 https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/28969/page/9141
Page 9142 https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/28969/page/9142

I’ll see if anything comes of trying this approach on the Top Row first before I look at any of the others.

Hope that helps,
Peter

[FROGSMILE]

Excellent stuff Peter, you do an incredible job in bringing out the (sometimes tragic) stories of these faces from over a hundred years ago.

[mrfrank]

Great information Peter - PM sent.

Many thanks,

Mike 

[FROGSMILE]

6 minutes ago, mrfrank said:

Great information Peter - PM sent.

Many thanks,

Mike 

I always think how wonderful it would be if these stories could be printed off in a compacted, one sheet format and stuck to the back of the frame for the benefit of perpetuity and future generations.

Edited 25 April , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[stiletto_33853]

Just as an aside, Worrall (KOSB) had been at the R.M.C. for some time as he appears in 1910 pictures I have.

 

Andy

[FROGSMILE]

On 02/05/2022 at 10:08, stiletto_33853 said:

Just as an aside, Worrall (KOSB) had been at the R.M.C. for some time as he appears in 1910 pictures I have.

 

Andy

It’s puzzling that Worrall is listed as a Staff Sergeant rather than a Colour Sergeant, as that former designation was not generally used in the infantry other than as a group description, in the plural, for battalion headquarters staff below the rank of commissioned officer.  I also can’t see any badge of rank and appointment.

Edited 9 April , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[Chris Lloyd]

On 16/01/2022 at 22:27, mrfrank said:

Frank Milburn McCausland, Royal Scots

Charles George Dixon, Royal Irish Regiment - 09May15 age 19

Gerald Ralph Hayes-Sadler, 2nd Warwickshire Regt - 03Sep16 age 19

Geoffrey Hugh Austen-Cartmell, 2nd HLI - 13Nov16 age 21

Archibald William Buchanan Miller, KOSB & RAF - 13Jul17 age 21

Geoffrey Charles Patrick Randal O'Donoghue, Connaught Rangers

John Wilmot Maynard, 3rd KRRC - 24Apr15 age 18

James Francis Hare, KRRC

Michael Wallace Blencowe Deane, Lancashire Fusiliers

Richard de Beauvoir De Lisle, 97th Deccan Infantry - 21Jan16 age 19

Walter Harry Corfield Bucknall, 2nd Northumberland Fusiliers - 03May17 age 20

Spencer Milne Clarence Theyre, Wiltshire Regiment

Arthur Stewart Parkin, ASC

Thomas Andrew Greville Rouse-Boughton-Knight, 1st Rifle Brigade - 18Oct16 age 19

Jasper Searle Lloyd, 2nd KEO Gurkha Rifles

Gerald Alexander Leith Farwell, 122nd Rajputana Infantry

George Geoffrey Needham, 1st Lancashire Fusiliers - 22Aug15 age 20

Geoffrey Raymond Clark, unattached

Lewis Alexander Gascoyne Dalziel, Royal Scots Fusiliers

George Geoffrey Voelcker, unattached

Maurice Aden Ley, Buffs attd 1st Lincs - 01Nov14 age 19

Herbrand Alfred Collman Williams, KRRC

Richard Clive Strachey, Somerset Light Infantry

Hubert Lawrence Grogan, 4th Worcestershire Regiment - 05May18 age 21

John Torrington Morris, 1st RWF - 16May15 age 19

Roy Pierson, 2nd Essex Regiment - 30Apr15 age 19

Henry Martin Whitty, ASC

John Windham Meade, Ox & Bucks LI

Henry Rawson Forde, 2nd KOYLI - 02Dec17 age 22

Hello Mike, I was intrigued to find this photograph with Jasper Searle Lloyd named as one of the cadets present, since we have extensive family history records but no photo of him at Sandhurst. However, we aren't able to locate him on the photograph or the list of names beneath it. Perhaps he's one of the damaged names? Many thanks.

He survived WW1 and we understand he served in the 1921/22 Iraq war. We believe he was very adversely affected by the latter. We would be very interested in knowing more about his service if anyone can help?

Finally, in case it's of interest: His older brother, Wymond, served in the Herefordshires at Gallipoli, but died near Oswestry training camp in 1915 after being hit by a train. Jasper died young (1934) of multiple sclerosis leaving a wife and issue. His younger brother and sisters also survived him. 

Edited 9 April , 2023 by Chris Lloyd

[mrfrank]

1 hour ago, Chris Lloyd said:

Hello Mike, I was intrigued to find this photograph with Jasper Searle Lloyd named as one of the cadets present, since we have extensive family history records but no photo of him at Sandhurst. However, we aren't able to locate him on the photograph or the list of names beneath it. Perhaps he's one of the damaged names? Many thanks.

He survived WW1 and we understand he served in the 1921/22 Iraq war. We believe he was very adversely affected by the latter. We would be very interested in knowing more about his service if anyone can help?

Finally, in case it's of interest: His older brother, Wymond, served in the Herefordshires at Gallipoli, but died near Oswestry training camp in 1915 after being hit by a train. Jasper died young (1934) of multiple sclerosis leaving a wife and issue. His younger brother and sisters also survived him. 

 

Hello Chris,

                    I’ve gone back to the rough notes I made last year on this. The attached crop is of the cadet I  believed to be Jasper Searle Lloyd. He’s located to the far left of the first (bench) seated row in the image. You can’t find him on the mount as he’s named as TS Lloyd. 
Having gone through the London Gazette lists of candidates graduating from the RMC within the timeframe in question, I came to the conclusion (perhaps erroneously) that this was a simple mistake by the photographic company in transposing a T for a J. I was presumably unable to locate a TS Lloyd in the LG listings. 
I have quite a number of these photos and such mistakes are surprisingly frequent. Perhaps you’re in a position to confirm if this was the case here. If it’s definitely not JS Lloyd, then I need to go back and look again for a TS Lloyd. 
Mike

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Chris Lloyd]

Thanks for the reply Mike. I thought it might be something like that, easy mistake to make. I've also seen in the Gazette that he was made 2nd Lt on 11th November 1914 so yes, the dates would work. Never mind!!

[mrfrank]

I recently purchased a copy of ‘The Royal Military College Record’ for April 1917 in which (amongst lots of other good information regarding both RMC & Staff College organisation, staff and courses) there is a list of RMC SNCOs who had commissioned since Aug 1914. 
 

CSM Albert Edward Worrall who appears in this image was commissioned on 6th March 1915 and his MiC has a qualifying date for Gallipoli of March 1915 and also serving with the Royal Fusiliers and RAF. Military Cross winner.
May 1915 Army List has him with 3rd KOSB.

May 1916 AL has him attached from KOSB and serving as Adjutant of 26th RF.  

 

Edited 9 April , 2023 by mrfrank

[Chris Lloyd]

5 hours ago, mrfrank said:

 

Hello Chris,

                    I’ve gone back to the rough notes I made last year on this. The attached crop is of the cadet I  believed to be Jasper Searle Lloyd. He’s located to the far left of the first (bench) seated row in the image. You can’t find him on the mount as he’s named as TS Lloyd. 
Having gone through the London Gazette lists of candidates graduating from the RMC within the timeframe in question, I came to the conclusion (perhaps erroneously) that this was a simple mistake by the photographic company in transposing a T for a J. I was presumably unable to locate a TS Lloyd in the LG listings. 
I have quite a number of these photos and such mistakes are surprisingly frequent. Perhaps you’re in a position to confirm if this was the case here. If it’s definitely not JS Lloyd, then I need to go back and look again for a TS Lloyd. 
Mike

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hi Mike, Here is a photo of Jasper as well as some reliable information on his military career. If you have any other Sandhurst photos you think he might be in, we'd be grateful. Thanks.