Steve789 Posted 17 January , 2022 Share Posted 17 January , 2022 Hi folks, I've been doing my family tree and I'm trying to find information on my great-grandads ww1 service. I've got various scraps of information from scratchy memories and the back of photographs and the family tree sites aren't having much luck finding anything. Here's the info i have Full name = Henry Alfred William Hill Born = APRIL 1898, Brighton, Sussex, England Possible Units = 10th Hampshire Rgt (1919), Royal Sussex Rgt (1915-1916, possible initial sign up) Rank = Sgt Possible service number = 21392 Now i do have a photo of him which has some info on it, saying its "Salonika 14th March 1919" and what i read as the 10th Hampshire Rgt. I've attached photos i have. Thanks for any help Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 17 January , 2022 Share Posted 17 January , 2022 He was #21332 Henry A Hill - https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D2864090 Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 17 January , 2022 Share Posted 17 January , 2022 The medal rolls tell us who he served overseas with.https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/5119/images/41629_636897_11027-00184?treeid=&personid=&hintid=&queryId=f2b59965e5ce14853c5b2d491ada1153&usePUB=true&_phsrc=lWR52&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&pId=2104673 Quote Royal Sussex Rgt (1915-1916, possible initial sign up) Why do you think this is a possible unit? Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corisande Posted 17 January , 2022 Share Posted 17 January , 2022 LLT gives for 10 Hampshires Formed at Winchester in August 1914 as part of K1 and moved to Dublin, attached as Army Troops to 10th (Irish) Division. Moved to Mullingar in September. March 1915 : moved to the Curragh and transferred to 29th Brigade in same Division. Moved to Basingstoke in May 1915. Sailed from Liverpool on 7 July 1915 and going via Mudros landed at Gallipoli 6 August 1915. 6 October 1915 : landed at Salonika. 2 November 1916 : transferred to 82nd Brigade in 27th Division. His medal roll entry gives he landed 15 Dec 1915, presumably with a later draft Perhaps someone can give the link to the War Diary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 17 January , 2022 Share Posted 17 January , 2022 For comparison on the service numbers. #21330 was issued to a Hampshire man on 9 November 1915. He had enlisted into the Royal Sussex on 27 May 1915, and was then posted to the Hants. Without further evidence, you can't say for definite whether Hill was with the Sussex prior to the Hants. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 17 January , 2022 Share Posted 17 January , 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, ss002d6252 said: do you think this is a possible unit? Near numbers 21330 and 21343 show this pattern. Attested RSussex 27/5/15 or 16/6/15 Posted 3 R Sussex 11 or 17/6/15 Both trfd to 3 Hants 9/11/15 Embark 26/11/15 Posted 2 Hants (mef) 21330 then has: Posted 10 Hants 26/12/15 Whereas 21343 remains 2nd Bn Edit -Craig I have taken a bracket to give more probability. Edited 17 January , 2022 by charlie962 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dai Bach y Sowldiwr Posted 17 January , 2022 Share Posted 17 January , 2022 His MIC is free on Ancestry: https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/4046291:1262?_phsrc=jpv391&_phstart=successSource&gsfn=henry&gsln=hill&ml_rpos=1&queryId=87cea1dd59f248fc1fe538ffa30b8817 Gives 'Theatre of War First Served in' as (3) [Egypt I think] and confirms date of entry as 12/12/1915. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 17 January , 2022 Share Posted 17 January , 2022 The other 10th Hants man in that first photo is 21327sgt West who has a surviving service record that shows a similar start in the R Sussex and is probably a good model for dates. The photo was taken at Base where they were awaiting demob and West sailed for UK a week later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 17 January , 2022 Share Posted 17 January , 2022 (edited) That’s a super first photo even though it’s faded. A Colour Sergeant (CQMS) in the Buffs (East Kent Regiment), and two Sergeants of the Hampshire’s, presumably all from the same Brigade and Division. There are X shaped formation patches on the Hampshire’s upper arms that I’m guessing related to a Roman numeral ten, as a reference to their battalion. Overseas service chevrons are visible in shot (nearest man) so it must be late in the war. My guess is that they’re sat atop a bit of a well known landmark as the view behind has clearly been deliberately chosen. Edited 18 January , 2022 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve789 Posted 18 January , 2022 Author Share Posted 18 January , 2022 blimey you guys are good! I did see that page on ancestry but dismissed it as the service number didn't match in my mind (i HATE old handwriting!), then throw in the thousands of Hills that popped up Quote Why do you think this is a possible unit? Purely because my nan wrote it down on a scrap of paper when we asked her about him years ago, I've no idea how true it is, hence the possible Is there a possibility to find a more detailed service record somewhere? Searching ancestry with the service number etc found nothing. I'd love to find out when he became a Sgt, where posted, did he see any combat etc (there is a story that he got gassed, no idea how true that is). Or will i have to make do with the war diary of the battalion that's on ancestry? (if anyone knows of a non-handwritten version that'd be great!) Frogsmile those are great photos, i was wondering what the badges actually looked like! I've got 3 more photos of individual troops sat for the camera in what looks more the day to day rig instead of dress uniform from the same batch as the ones above and i've always wondered about who they were but could never tell. Now i can see they have the hampshire badge on their helmets and it can just about me made out, so that at least put them into a regiment! If anyone's interested i don't mind posting them for everyone. Thanks folks! Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 18 January , 2022 Share Posted 18 January , 2022 2 hours ago, Steve789 said: interested i don't mind posting Please! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 18 January , 2022 Share Posted 18 January , 2022 2 hours ago, Steve789 said: record somewhere? Majority were destroyed by WW2 bombing thus no surviving detailed record. We have to try and draw conclusions from men with probable similar service, eg Sgt West above. Whilst certain dates can be fixed the majority is supposition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 18 January , 2022 Share Posted 18 January , 2022 2 hours ago, Steve789 said: Quote Purely because my nan wrote it down on a scrap of paper when we asked her about him years ago, I've no idea how true it is, hence the possible Looking at other men with similar numbers, it certainly can't be ruled out but it would have to have been a lucky guess from here otherwise. Quote Is there a possibility to find a more detailed service record somewhere? That appears to have long since been destroyed, unless he's one of the lucky ones that have a record still with the MoD (and which haven't yet been digitised, although they will be in due course). Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 18 January , 2022 Share Posted 18 January , 2022 (edited) 5 hours ago, Steve789 said: blimey you guys are good! I did see that page on ancestry but dismissed it as the service number didn't match in my mind (i HATE old handwriting!), then throw in the thousands of Hills that popped up Purely because my nan wrote it down on a scrap of paper when we asked her about him years ago, I've no idea how true it is, hence the possible Is there a possibility to find a more detailed service record somewhere? Searching ancestry with the service number etc found nothing. I'd love to find out when he became a Sgt, where posted, did he see any combat etc (there is a story that he got gassed, no idea how true that is). Or will i have to make do with the war diary of the battalion that's on ancestry? (if anyone knows of a non-handwritten version that'd be great!) Frogsmile those are great photos, i was wondering what the badges actually looked like! I've got 3 more photos of individual troops sat for the camera in what looks more the day to day rig instead of dress uniform from the same batch as the ones above and i've always wondered about who they were but could never tell. Now i can see they have the hampshire badge on their helmets and it can just about me made out, so that at least put them into a regiment! If anyone's interested i don't mind posting them for everyone. Thanks folks! Steve It’s always good to see photos. It’s such family archives as yours, long stored in dusty drawers and sometimes forgotten, that when posted here in the forum brings these men’s lives some recognition again. Edited 18 January , 2022 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 18 January , 2022 Share Posted 18 January , 2022 15 hours ago, Steve789 said: Born = APRIL 1898, Brighton, Sussex, England Any idea on his full date of birth ? Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corisande Posted 18 January , 2022 Share Posted 18 January , 2022 (edited) 6 minutes ago, ss002d6252 said: Any idea on his full date of birth ? 24 Feb 1898 • Brighton, Sussex in 1939 Register Edited 18 January , 2022 by corisande Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 18 January , 2022 Share Posted 18 January , 2022 1 minute ago, corisande said: 24 Feb 1898 • Brighton, Sussex in 1939 Register Thank you. I'll see if the Post 1920 list mentions anything - long shot, but worth a try, Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 18 January , 2022 Share Posted 18 January , 2022 Can't see anything obvious in the Post 1920 list, but we know it's not complete, so something may turn up once the records are digitised. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 18 January , 2022 Share Posted 18 January , 2022 (edited) 5 hours ago, Steve789 said: blimey you guys are good! I did see that page on ancestry but dismissed it as the service number didn't match in my mind (i HATE old handwriting!), then throw in the thousands of Hills that popped up Purely because my nan wrote it down on a scrap of paper when we asked her about him years ago, I've no idea how true it is, hence the possible Is there a possibility to find a more detailed service record somewhere? Searching ancestry with the service number etc found nothing. I'd love to find out when he became a Sgt, where posted, did he see any combat etc (there is a story that he got gassed, no idea how true that is). Or will i have to make do with the war diary of the battalion that's on ancestry? (if anyone knows of a non-handwritten version that'd be great!) Frogsmile those are great photos, i was wondering what the badges actually looked like! I've got 3 more photos of individual troops sat for the camera in what looks more the day to day rig instead of dress uniform from the same batch as the ones above and i've always wondered about who they were but could never tell. Now i can see they have the hampshire badge on their helmets and it can just about me made out, so that at least put them into a regiment! If anyone's interested i don't mind posting them for everyone. Thanks folks! Steve I’ve just noticed that your other photo shows that the Roman numeral ten (‘X’) has even been stitched to the arm of his iconic ‘grey-back**’ shirt, something that I don’t think I’ve ever seen before in photos from WW1, it implies that shirtsleeve order was used on duty (as it had been in India since prewar). I’m sure this cloth badge will be of interest to @poona guardas it’s a good, clear image. I’m looking forward to seeing your other photos. **for a period around the turn of the century ‘grey-backs’ was a colloquialism for British soldiers. Edited 18 January , 2022 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poona guard Posted 18 January , 2022 Share Posted 18 January , 2022 Thanks for sharing these photos. Can anyone make out a cloth badges on the Buffs man? The information provided is new - firstly wearing the badge on a shirt and secondly it was supposed to have been taken off on transfer to 28 Division. Excellent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 18 January , 2022 Share Posted 18 January , 2022 (edited) 8 hours ago, poona guard said: Thanks for sharing these photos. Can anyone make out a cloth badges on the Buffs man? The information provided is new - firstly wearing the badge on a shirt and secondly it was supposed to have been taken off on transfer to 28 Division. Excellent. Yes, I think that I can make out the shape of a cloth badge above his brass crown, but I’m not sure what it is. Edited 18 January , 2022 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve789 Posted 19 January , 2022 Author Share Posted 19 January , 2022 Quote 23 hours ago, ss002d6252 said: Any idea on his full date of birth ? 24 Feb 1898 • Brighton, Sussex in 1939 Register just to add to the dates, i did find another document this morning that stated his DoB as 15th Jan 1898 - https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/7579/images/ons_d19824az-0440?pId=46369367 , at least they all agree on 1898 i suppose!! Same the records most likely got destroyed during ww2 Is there a printed copy of the war dairy or a suggestion on the best books for the history of the 10th Hampshires during the time? I did find this ebook on amazon but would prefer something i could hold Here's the photos of the other soldiers, again, i have absolutely no idea who they are or where they were taken, but given Henry history it may well be from his battalion? 1 and 3 must have at least been from the same group as the tree is the same one! And as they seem to be of interest, here's links to the high resolution scans 3 Sergeant on hill Unknown soldier 1 Unknown soldier 2 Unknown soldier 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 19 January , 2022 Share Posted 19 January , 2022 24 minutes ago, Steve789 said: just to add to the dates, i did find another document this morning that stated his DoB as 15th Jan 1898 - https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/7579/images/ons_d19824az-0440?pId=46369367 , at least they all agree on 1898 i suppose!! You might be lucky. He doesn't seem to appear on the released list of MoD records, but we know that's not complete. Once the records are fully scanned and indexed (probably a couple of years off) then hopefully the other records will come to light and can be searched. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corisande Posted 19 January , 2022 Share Posted 19 January , 2022 25 minutes ago, Steve789 said: another document this morning that stated his DoB as 15th Jan 1898 15 Jan 1898 comes from is his death registration, so information came from someone else 24 Feb 1898 comes from the date he gave in 1939 Register both are liable to error, on balance I would say the 1939 Register date is the more likely one the only way you can get the truth is to buy his birth cert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Inspector Posted 19 January , 2022 Share Posted 19 January , 2022 (edited) Hi, If you haven't got it.... His birth cert. No. 2b,209, Brighton, Sussex. Registered 2nd qtr 1898. Henry Alfred W Hill. If you enlarge the 1939 register entry you will see that the 4 of 24 has been overwritten on the number below ?? a 0. or possibly a 9?? Regards Barry Edited 19 January , 2022 by The Inspector Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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