weightlily Posted 20 January , 2022 Share Posted 20 January , 2022 Hi, I am researching my grandmother's father, and while information has been scant, we have found a photo of him in what looks like a military uniform - he was rumoured to have fought in WW1. I was wondering if anyone would be so kind as to provide any information on the uniform, which may inform our further enquiries? I believe he was either Scottish or Canadian (the 1921 census says Scottish, but this is not clear). Any information with clues as to the nationality of the uniform, and context clues would be a really massive help! Thank you and Best wishes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 20 January , 2022 Share Posted 20 January , 2022 (edited) Gordon Highlanders. He has been wounded and is wearing hospital blue beneath his greatcoat but very unusually with a dark hued shirt rather than the usual white. His necktie is red and the jacket and trousers you see protruding from the bottom of his coat a mid shade of blue, as is the armband on the left arm of his coat. Wounded men below the rank of officer were all required to wear the blue suit while they were recovering and, in cold weather, their greatcoats with a blue armband. See: http://wellcomelibrary.blogspot.com/2010/06/convalescent-blues-soldiers-in.html?m=1 NB. He could be British (Scottish) or Canadian (Scottish), both wore hospital blue when when hospitalised. Edited 20 January , 2022 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tankengine888 Posted 20 January , 2022 Share Posted 20 January , 2022 (edited) 14 minutes ago, weightlily said: Hi, I am researching my grandmother's father, and while information has been scant, we have found a photo of him in what looks like a military uniform - he was rumoured to have fought in WW1. I was wondering if anyone would be so kind as to provide any information on the uniform, which may inform our further enquiries? I believe he was either Scottish or Canadian (the 1921 census says Scottish, but this is not clear). Any information with clues as to the nationality of the uniform, and context clues would be a really massive help! Thank you and Best wishes Name by chance? On his left arm, there is a white stripe vertically, I think it's a wound stripe. EDIT: the tie looks like an officer, but I see no insignia supporting that. Edited 20 January , 2022 by tankengine888 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weightlily Posted 20 January , 2022 Author Share Posted 20 January , 2022 John Stewart - apparently born in Perth, Scotland in 1895 - but I'm completely unsure of any of the facts! Any help is really valuable! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tankengine888 Posted 20 January , 2022 Share Posted 20 January , 2022 6 minutes ago, weightlily said: John Stewart - apparently born in Perth, Scotland in 1895 - but I'm completely unsure of any of the facts! Any help is really valuable! All of these are different John Stewart's I believe. Name: John Stewart Military Year: 1914-1915 Rank: Private Company: WO 329 Regiment or Corps: Gordon Highlanders Regiment Number: 1189 Medal Awarded: 1914-1915 Star Name: John Stewart Military Year: 1914-1920 Rank: Sergeant Company: WO 329 Regiment or Corps: Gordon Highlanders Regiment Number: S/40207 Medal Awarded: British War Medal and Victory Medal Name: John Stewart Military Year: 1914-1920 Rank: Lance Corporal Company: WO 329 Regiment or Corps: Gordon Highlanders Regiment Number: S/9205 Medal Awarded: British War Medal and Victory Medal Name: John Stewart Military Year: 1914-1920 Rank: Private Company: WO 329 Regiment or Corps: Gordon Highlanders Regiment Number: 235693 Medal Awarded: British War Medal and Victory Medal Name: John Stewart Military Year: 1914-1920 Rank: Acting Sergeant Company: WO 329 Regiment or Corps: Gordon Highlanders Regiment Number: 201140 Medal Awarded: British War Medal and Victory Medal Name: John Stewart Military Year: 1914-1920 Rank: Private Company: WO 329 Regiment or Corps: Gordon Highlanders Regiment Number: 203554 Medal Awarded: British War Medal and Victory Medal These are just a couple! Briefly looking on Ancestry Family Trees I find 2 John Stewarts One born in a place called "Logierait" In Perthshire other in "Weem" Also Perthshire. Will search and try find his record now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tankengine888 Posted 20 January , 2022 Share Posted 20 January , 2022 (edited) Only 2 records I could find for the Gordon Highlanders, both are most likely not him Name: John Stewart Gender: Male Enlistment Age: 26 Birth Place: Branchschean, Antrim Military Date: 1914 Relationship to Soldier: Self (Head) Regimental Number: 6971 Regiment Name: Gordon Highlanders (Antrim is in Ireland if I am not mistaken) Name: John Stewart Gender: Male Enlistment Age: 22 Birth Date: abt 1894 Document Date: 1916 Residence Place: Hillbrae, Cosalmond Aberdeen Military Date: 1916 Relationship to Soldier: Self (Head) Regiment Name: Gordon Highlanders Aberdeen, In Scotland, but born in around 1894. Most likely transferred when the end of the war came about. A quick search of men born in Perthshire with war records came up with nil. Mind you, it was probably burned. EDIT: I just realized FROGSMILE is right, its hospital blues. my bad! Thought he was an officer for a second! Edited 20 January , 2022 by tankengine888 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weightlily Posted 20 January , 2022 Author Share Posted 20 January , 2022 The hospital idea may actually bear some similarity with the story that my grandma told that he met his wife whilst in hospital for an injury - the hospital was supposedly in Liverpool, but not sure if soldiers from that regiment were transferred there. Thank you for all your help so far! Hi Frogsmile, Thank you very much for the information you’ve provided! Wouldn’t have known where to start! Would it be typical for Canadian soldiers to serve in a British regiment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weightlily Posted 20 January , 2022 Author Share Posted 20 January , 2022 39 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said: Gordon Highlanders. He has been wounded and is wearing hospital blue beneath his greatcoat but very unusually with a dark hued shirt rather than the usual white. His necktie is red and the jacket and trousers you see protruding from the bottom of his coat a mid shade of blue, as is the armband on the left arm of his coat. Wounded men below the rank of officer were all required to wear the blue suit while they were recovering and in cold weather their greatcoats with a blue armband. See: http://wellcomelibrary.blogspot.com/2010/06/convalescent-blues-soldiers-in.html?m=1 NB. He could be British (Scottish) or Canadian (Scottish), both wore hospital blue when when hospitalised. Hi Frogsmile, Thank you very much for the information you’ve provided! Wouldn’t have known where to start! Would it be typical for Canadian soldiers to serve in a British regiment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 20 January , 2022 Share Posted 20 January , 2022 2 minutes ago, weightlily said: Would it be typical for Canadian soldiers to serve in a British regiment? A lot of men returned to the UK from abroad to enlist. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 20 January , 2022 Share Posted 20 January , 2022 32 minutes ago, weightlily said: John Stewart - apparently born in Perth, Scotland in 1895 - but I'm completely unsure of any of the facts! Any help is really valuable! Any details of parents, siblings etc that might have ? Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 20 January , 2022 Share Posted 20 January , 2022 (edited) 20 minutes ago, weightlily said: Hi Frogsmile, Thank you very much for the information you’ve provided! Wouldn’t have known where to start! Would it be typical for Canadian soldiers to serve in a British regiment? There were at that time Canadians of many different generations. Some went back to the US war of independence (aka American Revolution), some were former French colonists, and there were also a great many first generation arrivals from recent years after the turn of the century (often to farm). All of these groups flocked to the colours to fight. Some of the last category returned home and enlisted in British regiments, largely because it got them to the fighting more quickly, but by far the majority joined units raised in Canada and initially wore Canadian uniform until deployment to France, where British uniform was more practical for logistical reasons. Edited 20 January , 2022 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 20 January , 2022 Share Posted 20 January , 2022 50 minutes ago, weightlily said: Hi, I am researching my grandmother's father, and while information has been scant, we have found a photo of him in what looks like a military uniform - he was rumoured to have fought in WW1. I was wondering if anyone would be so kind as to provide any information on the uniform, which may inform our further enquiries? I believe he was either Scottish or Canadian (the 1921 census says Scottish, but this is not clear). Any information with clues as to the nationality of the uniform, and context clues would be a really massive help! Thank you and Best wishes You can date the picture to after July 1916 as the stripes were not issued until then. Does the original picture show more of the woman sitting next to him ? Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 20 January , 2022 Share Posted 20 January , 2022 (edited) 20 minutes ago, weightlily said: The hospital idea may actually bear some similarity with the story that my grandma told that he met his wife whilst in hospital for an injury - the hospital was supposedly in Liverpool, but not sure if soldiers from that regiment were transferred there. Thank you for all your help so far! Hi Frogsmile, Thank you very much for the information you’ve provided! Wouldn’t have known where to start! Would it be typical for Canadian soldiers to serve in a British regiment? You can read about some of the Liverpool war hospitals here: http://www.old-merseytimes.co.uk/militaryhospitals.html It seems likely that he was treated at one of them. Edited 20 January , 2022 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weightlily Posted 20 January , 2022 Author Share Posted 20 January , 2022 14 minutes ago, ss002d6252 said: You can date the picture to after July 1916 as the stripes were not issued until then. Does the original picture show more of the woman sitting next to him ? Craig Hi Craig, Apologies, I may be slow at replying due to work during the day! I was wondering what stripes are? Here is the full picture of my great grandfather and great grandmother. In terms of family, I solely know his father was called George. Both my gt-grandfather and his father were listed as marine firemen on their wedding certificate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 20 January , 2022 Share Posted 20 January , 2022 3 minutes ago, weightlily said: I was wondering what stripes are? The wound stripe is on his left arm. They were only authorised for issue from July 1916, so it sets the earliest date for the picture (although the actual wounding could be earlier). Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weightlily Posted 20 January , 2022 Author Share Posted 20 January , 2022 He was rumoured to have changed his surname from something like O’Nien - but that’s just based on what it sounded like 80 years ago to my grandma. The memories around him are really unclear, so just trying to dig as much information out as possible. You’ve all been great! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveE Posted 20 January , 2022 Share Posted 20 January , 2022 It could be my eyesight but is there more to the Shoulder Title than just the plain 'Gordon'? There's a hint of something there in the photo which appears to me to be a possible Territorial Force title in the format T/X/Gordon (where X = 4, 5, 6 or 7)? Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan1892 Posted 20 January , 2022 Share Posted 20 January , 2022 (edited) 5 hours ago, weightlily said: John Stewart - apparently born in Perth, Scotland in 1895 - but I'm completely unsure of any of the facts! Any help is really valuable! The 1901 Census records a John Stewart, born Perth circa 1896. Parents George and Jessie Stewart. Siblings: John aged 5 years and Andrew aged 2 years. The family were living at 5 Bleachfield Row, Leven, Fife Just checked on occupation of the father, he was employed as a Flax Mill Stationary Engine Driver Edited 20 January , 2022 by Allan1892 To delete reference to 1901 Census Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan1892 Posted 20 January , 2022 Share Posted 20 January , 2022 (edited) 4 hours ago, weightlily said: 4 hours ago, weightlily said: In terms of family, I solely know his father was called George. Both my gt-grandfather and his father were listed as marine firemen on their wedding certificate I know that the image (courtesy of Find My Past) shows a marriage in Liverpool but the occupation of John (the groom) is a Marine Fireman and his father, George, is shown to be a fireman. Might be a longshot but you never know. Edited 20 January , 2022 by Allan1892 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 20 January , 2022 Share Posted 20 January , 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, SteveE said: It could be my eyesight but is there more to the Shoulder Title than just the plain 'Gordon'? There's a hint of something there in the photo which appears to me to be a possible Territorial Force title in the format T/X/Gordon (where X = 4, 5, 6 or 7)? Steve Not just your eyesight Steve, I had noticed it too and I think you’re right that it’s probably a Territorial Force shoulder title of a numbered battalion. Edited 20 January , 2022 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weightlily Posted 20 January , 2022 Author Share Posted 20 January , 2022 6 hours ago, ss002d6252 said: The wound stripe is on his left arm. They were only authorised for issue from July 1916, so it sets the earliest date for the picture (although the actual wounding could be earlier). Craig Thank you for your information! 2 hours ago, Allan1892 said: I know that the image (courtesy of Find My Past) shows a marriage in Liverpool but the occupation of John (the groom) is a Marine Fireman and his father, George, is shown to be a fireman. Might be a longshot but you never know. It lines up with 1921 census information in terms of occupation! I will look into his father a bit further! 2 hours ago, FROGSMILE said: Not just your eyesight Steve, I had noticed it too and I think you’re right that it’s probably a Territorial Force shoulder title of a numbered battalion. 3 hours ago, SteveE said: It could be my eyesight but is there more to the Shoulder Title than just the plain 'Gordon'? There's a hint of something there in the photo which appears to me to be a possible Territorial Force title in the format T/X/Gordon (where X = 4, 5, 6 or 7)? Steve It certainly looks to be a Shoulder Title! Thank you so much for your help - it's really been invaluable as these are details I wouldn't have noticed or realised were clues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weightlily Posted 20 January , 2022 Author Share Posted 20 January , 2022 As an aside, here is the only other picture I have of John. Likely before the war, I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 20 January , 2022 Share Posted 20 January , 2022 1 minute ago, weightlily said: As an aside, here is the only other picture I have of John. Likely before the war, I think. Definitely looks like it was taken in the US or Canada. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 20 January , 2022 Share Posted 20 January , 2022 (edited) 19 minutes ago, weightlily said: As an aside, here is the only other picture I have of John. Likely before the war, I think. That looks to be a photo typical of Canada. If he did go there, and if he joined the Canadian Expeditionary Force there, then it’s possible that he might’ve been a soldier in the 50th Gordon Highlanders of Canada. However the cap badge in your photo looks more British to my eyes. Edited 20 January , 2022 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 20 January , 2022 Share Posted 20 January , 2022 A 1915 nominal roll for 50th Bn is available online . I can't see any obvious candidates for him. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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