Stev0 Posted 21 May , 2022 Share Posted 21 May , 2022 I found a WW1 bayonet made by Alex coppel solingen a good 6 years ago 3 metres deep in clay whilst digging for footings, I’ve researched quite a few times about it, and the closest one is one on YouTube with a couple of the same stamps but there always w 02 or w 05, where as mine has w 16 maybe 15, the L and j stamps are on the handle, the crown stamp is on the base of the blade, along with Alex coppel solingen on the side, I just can’t seem to find any that have the same markings, any help would be great thanks. Steven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBsk Posted 21 May , 2022 Share Posted 21 May , 2022 (edited) S98/05nAS butcher blade with sawback.W16 for 1916. Edited 21 May , 2022 by AndyBsk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stev0 Posted 21 May , 2022 Author Share Posted 21 May , 2022 Thank you, much appreciated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 22 May , 2022 Share Posted 22 May , 2022 Welcome to the GWForum! That's a nice find! And as Andy says, it is a S.98/05 neue Art mit Saege (='new type, with saw(back)'). Digging for footings where? At that depth could be from the bottom of a trench! Julian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBsk Posted 22 May , 2022 Share Posted 22 May , 2022 Certainly not a ground find, it could be probably not outside stored as the metall on scabbard would be pitted heavily, this is a basement piece or something else, but certainly not ground finding. The blade is in excellent condition only medium rust on pommel. Grips are intact. Someone filled on tooths of sawback, as the ends have different form as normal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stev0 Posted 23 May , 2022 Author Share Posted 23 May , 2022 Why would I lie ***, We was building an extension on top of a brick garage and had to underpin the original footings, we had to dig 3 meters down as the building inspector said the ground was to soft, and found it later that day, was really clean and I took the sheath off and was still nicely oiled which I was so surprised, was in Nottingham in a old mining village. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stev0 Posted 23 May , 2022 Author Share Posted 23 May , 2022 On 22/05/2022 at 07:44, trajan said: Welcome to the GWForum! That's a nice find! And as Andy says, it is a S.98/05 neue Art mit Saege (='new type, with saw(back)'). Digging for footings where? At that depth could be from the bottom of a trench! Julian Was in a mining village in Nottingham, building an extension above a brick garage but building inspector told us to dig 3 meters down so we could underpin the original footings, As ground was to soft, found it later that day, completely fine, took Sheath off and was completely oiled and perfectly fine, I was expecting it to be rusted, but literally looks same in the pics as the day I found it. Steven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMB1943 Posted 23 May , 2022 Share Posted 23 May , 2022 Stev0, I think our impression is that the bayonet/scabbard could not have been in the ground for very long. You describe it as "was completely oiled and perfectly fine". I wonder if a co-worker had planted it for you to find?? The fact that it was completely oiled seems a little suspicious. Whatever the circumstances, it is a lovely saw-back example of a butcher blade! Regards, JMB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBsk Posted 24 May , 2022 Share Posted 24 May , 2022 (edited) Yes it could be when in special condition so preserved that the rust was not started, i dont say You lie only the piece could be not for 100 years in ground, as it would looks different. Could be someone diget it some years ago. Mainly when You look at grips, they would detetoriate and as JMB correctly mentioned the oiling surface could be not remain so even only one year in ground. Edited 24 May , 2022 by AndyBsk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 24 May , 2022 Share Posted 24 May , 2022 Speaking with my professional digging archaeologist hat on... Something like this could not survive burial in normal soil conditions that long without showing some form of corrosion and the grips rotting, and the oil drying up. It would needed to be in a sealed anaerobic context, but even then it would show some corrosion. This is not to say that you are incorrect in what you say, simply that it must have been in some other recently dug 'hole' that you cut into without realising it. Assuming, that is, it wasn't planted... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBsk Posted 24 May , 2022 Share Posted 24 May , 2022 I believe someone postwar hammered the sawback area of blade to made it not so sharp probably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stev0 Posted 24 May , 2022 Author Share Posted 24 May , 2022 When I found it, again was in clay, obviously it had clay around it and had to wipe it off, but once I did with a old T-shirt it literally looked like it does on the pick, clay prevents oxygen, so no rotting, also when I mentioned it was still oiled I mean the actual blade under the Sheaf, and the sheaf was and still is a tight fit, it sort of locks in once you get to the neck, and no my co worker didn’t plant it 3 metres down, because I was only with my boss and building inspector that morning then they went to another job, while I dug the rest of the 2 metres down on my own, it is what it is, the black oil is still Exactly the same as I found it (pic) can’t tell you anymore because that literally it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stev0 Posted 24 May , 2022 Author Share Posted 24 May , 2022 13 hours ago, AndyBsk said: I believe someone postwar hammered the sawback area of blade to made it not so sharp probably. Maybe, thanks for commenting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBsk Posted 24 May , 2022 Share Posted 24 May , 2022 (edited) In fuller it looks like silver paint.certainly not long period in ground before Your finding. Edited 24 May , 2022 by AndyBsk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
depaor01 Posted 24 May , 2022 Share Posted 24 May , 2022 2 hours ago, AndyBsk said: In fuller it looks like silver paint.certainly not long period in ground before Your finding. I think the fuller shows an effect of the lighting, not paint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 25 May , 2022 Share Posted 25 May , 2022 5 hours ago, depaor01 said: I think the fuller shows an effect of the lighting, not paint. Agree - see the shadow from the blade back. The saw-teeth might not have been hammered back. I have a kS98 which looks like that in the middle part and I do wonder if it had been overused. But, yes, something odd has happened to the teeth here. Julian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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