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What is this POW uniform?


knittinganddeath

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24 minutes ago, knittinganddeath said:

How did you know which Verlustlisten to look in?

On the page that featured Bolislaus Rominski I noted some other Løken residents. And at the start of the list (1113) it is mentioned that "this list also contains the 2nd list of POW's in Norway, list nr 1 is included in Preußen 869"

loken1.jpg.1a624990258cbf47da9654bbc4fc10e3.jpg

Maybe there's a "list 3" but have not found that yet. And no, you can't search for "Loken" unfortunately (but those Verlustlisten are a great resource nonetheless!)

"List nr 1" also included some 50 POW's in Denmark (Hald in Jutland). Found a Flickr photostream for that camp. Maybe I should start a new thread on that camp.

Fangelejren ved Hald (1917) - The Prison Camp at Hald in Jutland

 

Edited by JWK
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Lorenz Sahner    Born 28.11.80 Bildstock    Grenadier-Regiment 1    Died in Loken 22.9.17 following illness

What happened to his grave? It's not in the Volksbund database.

 

Anyway, with the names on Charlie's list I now have 154 names (and Regiments for most) for Löken en Hovelsasen combined.

If only I could figure out how to post an Excel file?

 

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1 minute ago, JWK said:

What happened to his grave? It's not in the Volksbund database.

I wrote to the church in Lomen this afternoon to ask if his grave is still there (that's where he was buried according to the Lagerbote). Hopefully they won't ignore me...

I think if you turn the Excel file into a PDF you might be able to post it?

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Good idea turning it into a PDF. Let's see:

*Old list. See further down this thread for the latest, updated list!

Copy of Loken.pdf

 

Work in progress.

 

Edited by JWK
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On 02/06/2022 at 20:50, JWK said:

Good idea turning it into a PDF. Let's see:

Copy of Loken.pdf 114.7 kB · 2 downloads

 

Work in progress.

 

Excellent work JWK.  I hope that you will be able to find some Husaren.  I noticed earlier that you had ranks/appointments and names, but didn’t see any mention of specific units.

Edited by FROGSMILE
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22 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

I hope that you will be able to find some Husaren.

No Husaren yet. Just 2 Ulanen, 8 Grenadiers, a Feldflieger, a bunch of Jägers, 2 Saxons and a Wurttemberger. And of course many Infanterie regiments.

But maybe the missing 30 are all Hussars?

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To the Løken list can also be added

Fritz Lemcke (https://des.genealogy.net/search/show/6217214)

Wilhelm Hecker (https://des.genealogy.net/search/show/6147224)

Franz Ebisch and Gottfried Droese (https://des.genealogy.net/search/show/6225282)

Ludwig Borowski, Otto Brömme, Johann Georg von Buch, and Karl Buckendahl (https://des.genealogy.net/search/show/6144956)

Luzian Adrian (https://des.genealogy.net/search/show/5646712)

 

Johannes Rünemann

Paul Pellin

Hermann Pelz

 

To the Hald list

Oskar Palme

 

(all except Lemcke are on the same page as Hermann Pelikan: https://des.genealogy.net/search/show/6211352)

Edited by knittinganddeath
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4 minutes ago, JWK said:

No Husaren yet. Just 2 Ulanen, 8 Grenadiers, a Feldflieger, a bunch of Jägers, 2 Saxons and a Wurttemberger. And of course many Infanterie regiments.

But maybe the missing 30 are all Hussars?

Well the photos of soldiers in Attila’s certainly suggest that some were there.  I don’t think that they were playing a children’s game of ‘dress up’.

Edited by FROGSMILE
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44 minutes ago, knittinganddeath said:

Johannes Rünemann

Johannes Nünemann is already in the list (I too get majorly confused with those capital N's and R's in Fraktur!)

All the others added. 158 now so far, only 26 to go! :)

 

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Further POWs in Norway

 

Johannes Latwat --> same as Max Latwat? (same birthday, hometown)

Siegfried Mey https://des.genealogy.net/search/show/8945561

Bruno Nitsche https://des.genealogy.net/search/show/8242729

Friedrich Matzke https://des.genealogy.net/search/show/3360802


 

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Maybe Max Latwat was called Max Johannes (or Johannes Max)? Made a note.

Rest added/corrected.

Bruno Nitsche:  

https://des.genealogy.net/search/show/7713022  shows him in Hald (Denmark)

https://des.genealogy.net/search/show/8242729  shows him as back from Norway?

 

And there were British sailors interned near Lillehammer (off the HMS India, torpedoed on 8.8.1915).  Never knew that!

Edited by JWK
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The Lagerbote came to the rescue regarding Nitsche! He is mentioned by name upon his arrival in Denmark (page 152 of the second volume).

1069234198_Screenshot2022-06-03at13_12_15.png.602fdc073b7f4a6759b35a0c43c5780c.png

 

The Lagerbote also reveals why "Leutnant Dierssen" can't be found in the Verlustlisten: he wasn't a prisoner at all.

717322983_Screenshot2022-06-03at13_19_19.png.46f51a2b35e3295c258c41fdf8623918.png

("The celebration was opened by a speech by Lieutenant Dierssen, who had been seconded to Norway by the representative of the Ministry of War at the German Embassy in Copenhagen." Translated by DeepL.)

 

Regarding HMS India in Norway, local historians in Lillehammer have written a surprising amount about them, plus there are a lot of newspaper articles from that time. IIRC the wife of one of the officers' descendants was on this forum last year looking for more information -- she was writing a book on the topic.

If the newspaper accounts are to be believed, those men were extremely unpopular due to their bad behaviour in town. Lots of escape attempts, public drunkenness, and brawling both among each other and with locals. They did get home leave for a few weeks at a time, and once someone got another man (his brother, cousin, or a random Australian soldier depending on which source you read) to return in his stead, the ruse only being discovered when the imposter was in Norway.

The crew of the SS Berlin were also interned here from the fall of 1914 onwards, first at Hommelviken near Trondheim and then in the more isolated Lofjord after about half of them escaped.

Edited by knittinganddeath
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9 minutes ago, knittinganddeath said:

The Lagerbote also reveals why "Leutnant Dierssen" can't be found in the Verlustlisten: he wasn't a prisoner.

 

I too apparently need to read the Lagerbote more thoroughly :D Sorry for misleading everyone.

Charlie

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Aha, many names to add to the list!

Will post an update of the list a.s.a.p. (Got 161 names so far, but with this article in the Lagerbote that could well get to over 170!

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By the way, is it possible that the men wearing the Attila are Austrian officers? I note that in my last post, the excerpt about Dierssen also mentions there were 16 Austrian officers at Löken. 

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5 minutes ago, knittinganddeath said:

By the way, is it possible that the men wearing the Attila are Austrian officers? I note that in my last post, the excerpt about Dierssen also mentions there were 16 Austrian officers at Löken. 

Austria did have Husaren just like most of Europe.  Here’s an example of one regimental uniform, as at 1914.  Note the distinctive slanted pockets on the skirt hips.

0851E45E-A0B4-484B-8759-4EF2958AE0AA.jpeg

26834834-D437-451C-8B52-4806D1AC17F7.jpeg

Edited by FROGSMILE
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33 minutes ago, knittinganddeath said:

, is it possible that the men wearing the Attila are Austrian officers?

I don’t think so, the men in the photos are wearing German headdress, they also haven‘t got any pips denoting their rank on their collars.

Charlie

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Just went back to read the account of the Kaiser's birthday and found an explanation of the Attilas.

1936423390_Screenshot2022-06-03at14_24_56.png.509b0ee9a0bbfbc90287caf1a9694c03.png

"A splendid picture was presented by the soldiers in their smart blue Hussar uniforms decorated with white cords, which they had exchanged for the old uniforms that had been worn out in captivity." (Translation from DeepL)

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8 minutes ago, knittinganddeath said:

Just went back to read the account of the Kaiser's birthday and found an explanation of the Attilas.

1936423390_Screenshot2022-06-03at14_24_56.png.509b0ee9a0bbfbc90287caf1a9694c03.png

"A splendid picture was presented by the soldiers in their smart blue Hussar uniforms decorated with white cords, which they had exchanged for the old uniforms that had been worn out in captivity." (Translation from DeepL)

Fantastic and a great surprise to me.  They were indeed playing dress up!  I wouldn’t have believed it of the German military mindset, but needs must if their old uniforms were worn out. 

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The latest version of the list. 161 names.

*edited. Updated list further down this thread

Edited by JWK
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Cancel that last post, I missed some names provided by Knitting!

And I found one other: Marquis  Louis  Utffz.  18.10.  Hagen i. W.  Reserve-Infanterie-Regiment 220

168 names now - 28 Officers, 140 ORs  (out of a possible 193 - 35 Officers, 158 Ors)

Norway German POWs.pdf

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