German soldier papers, documents, photographs

[GreyC]

9 hours ago, bierast said:

 

One of my friends suggests that someone may have added this stamp post-war to increase the value of the lot - I think the fact that it's an assault unit (even if not one of the hyper-collectable Sturmbataillonen) triggered this suspicion on his part.

If it was indeed acquire 45 years ago, I don´t think that a few pence extra (at that time) would have triggered something like that.

It is clearly a German card, the kuk Feldpost was indeed bilingual when Hungarian units were involved.

GreyC

[charlie2]

17 minutes ago, GreyC said:

Katharine Rödel Gutsbesitzertochter

Katharine Gretel not Rödel, who presumably lived in the Vogtland

Charlie

[AOK4]

A German field post stamp and an Austro-Hungarian unit stamp on one item are not necessarily a problem, I think. The man, being in the communications unit, may well have been working with the Austro-Hungarian assault unit and have dropped his card in the mailbox of that unit to which he was temporarily attached to (probably during a training, I would say). The man responsible for the field post would have stamped the letter (and probably checked the content) but would then have taken the letter to the German field post office to be sent as the Austro-Hungarian Army had a different postal system.

Just my thinking though, I'm not a field post expert.

Also note the distinction between unit stamps and field post stamps.

Jan

[GreyC]

oops, my mistake. Thanks Charlie!

Doesn´t solve the puzzle, though.

Here an example from my collection. An (Austrian?) soldier writes to his Kegelbrüder ( a bit like bowling) in Germany.

He is part of an Austrian artillery unit. The postoffice stamp seems to be civilian. BUT: all unit stamps I have in my collection of Austrian units all have the kuk abbriviation as part of the name, as in this example (twice) This might be a clue as the Sturmabteilungsstempel (assault unit) does not have kuk as part of its designation.

GreyC

 

Edited 27 September , 2022 by GreyC

[bierast]

9 minutes ago, GreyC said:

Here an example from my collection. An (Austrian?) soldier writes to his Kegelbrüder ( a bit like bowling) in Germany.

He is part of an Austrian artillery unit. The postoffice stamp seems to be civilian. BUT: all unit stamps I have in my collection of Austrian units all have the kuk abbriviation as part of the name, as in this example (twice) This might be a clue as the Sturmabteilungsstemple (assault unit) does not have kuk as part of its designation.

Nice piece - friends and family connections between the (heavily ethnically German back then) population of Austrian Bohemia and that of the Kingdom of Saxony seem to have been fairly common.

On abbreviations - remember that Austria-Hungary had three armies as a consequence of the 19th century compromise settlement with the Hungarians. The 'common' army used the "kuk" prefix, whereas the Austrian Landwehr had 'kk' and the Hungarian Honved (when referred to in German) had 'ku'.

[GreyC]

And here is a piece of Feldpost written by a member of an Austrian unit in the Etappe with kuk Formation/Unitstamp and civilian postal stamp of the German Generalgouvernement Polen from Warsaw.

GreyC

9 hours ago, bierast said:

The 'common' army used the "kuk" prefix, whereas the Austrian Landwehr had 'kk' and the Hungarian Honved (when referred to in German) had 'ku'.

Thanks for pointing this out, all three prefixes would have been part of the unit name though, which is missing in the Sturmabt. unit stamp.

Here is an example of a k.k. Prefix and an Austrian Fieldpoststamp which looks a bit similar to some German ones, but with the kuk prefix, too.

GreyC

Edited 27 September , 2022 by GreyC

[charlie2]

Nothing conclusive but the A-H units are referred to in the casualty lists as „Sturmbaon of the x Division“ and not Sturmabteilung.

Charlie

[GreyC]

Here is a text specifying the whereabouts of the 40th divison around the time the above letter was posted by Rödel:

"St. Quentiv.
4. After a rest, in the course of which it was reorganized, it spent several weeks
in the sector of Itancourt, in the A-icinity of St. Quentin. During the months of
August and September it received 2,300 men as replacements. A large number
came from the Russian front (244th Reser\-e Infantrj' Regiment. 350th Landwehr
Regiment, the 19th Landsturm Battalion from the garrison of Posen; besides these,
Saxons were withdrawn from the 42Sth Infantn,- Regiment and the 8th Landsturm)."

There was also a mention of the assault unit of the division for October:

"Only the assault detachment offered any energetic resistance on October 27, 1917."

All from: Histories of the 250 German Divisions

9 hours ago, charlie2 said:

„Sturmbaon of the x Division“ and not Sturmabteilung.

 

Good find!

GreyC

[GreyC]

What I also have in my collection, but which I can´t find right know, are blank Feldpostbriefe with the unit stamp already stamped on them in advance of mailing them. Maybe this is the case here, too. Maybe the guy was with the Sturmabteilung first and then switched to IR 360 where he then used the prestamped Feldpost cover....

GrteyC

[charlie2]

Maybe of interest for researching A-H letters etc https://www.austrianphilately.com/dixnut/dn0fword.htm

[bierast]

For what it's worth, the information I have on the (German / Saxon) Sturmabteilung der 40. Infanterie-Division is as follows, gleaned from four MStHO citations to its officers plus the odd reference in books and some documents in the IR 134 files at the Saxon archives:

40.ID formed a Sturmabteilung around summer 1916, by the usual process of donations (likely of volunteers) from the three infantry regiments of the division. It definitely fought as a unit during the division's defence of the Butte de Warlencourt in October 1916 (two of the aforementioned MStHO awards were for this action). It also fought as a unit during Third Ypres, with further awards to its officers for actions near Bixschoote in July 1917 and Houthulst Forest that October. The Sturmabteilung was officially dissolved on 1st December 1917 (by which time the division was in fact on the Eastern Front) and its personnel returned to the (depleted) donor regiments. IR 134 received the following: 2 x Leutnant der Reserve, 5 x Unteroffizier, 1 x Sanitäts-Unteroffizier, 4 x Gefreiter, 30 x private soldiers, 1 x MG 08/15 'light' machine-gun. Presumably this represented about a third of the strength of the Sturmabteilung at the time of its dissolution.

[GreyC]

Very interesting. Thank you!

GreyC

[FROGSMILE]

@Professor Peter Stokes  I’m suspecting that you’re unaware of all the interested responses to your quite stimulating post.  It is very rare that such a cache of related documents turns up.

Edited 27 September , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[Professor Peter Stokes]

5 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

@Professor Peter Stokes  I’m suspecting that you’re unaware of all the interested responses to your quite stimulating post.  It is very rare that such a cache of related documents turns up.

Hello Frogsmile and everyone 

Thank you very much for pointing out that I need to look. I do apologise - I am not very well versed in post culture and environments so really appreciate your pointers and nudges.

Fascinating detail and additional information - many thanks indeed

[Professor Peter Stokes]

[Professor Peter Stokes]

[FROGSMILE]

Thank you for taking the time to post the documents, it is very much appreciated.  I’m sure that some of my German colleagues (and those with special interest) here in the forum will be able to advise you of where the documents could be sent so that they might be preserved for posterity, or returned to families (if any remain and are interested).  They will no doubt translate and debate the contents of what you have preserved for all this time.  

Edited 27 September , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[Professor Peter Stokes]

38 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

Thank you for taking the time to post the documents, it is very much appreciated.  I’m sure that some of my German colleagues (and those with special interest) here in the forum will be able to advise you of where the documents could be sent so that they might be preserved for posterity, or returned to families (if any remain and are interested).  They will no doubt translate and debate the contents of what you have preserved for all this time.  

Hello Frogsmile - many thanks indeed. Yes any insights would be welcome from people on the forum and beyond

[knittinganddeath]

Hi all, just poking my head in to say hello and thank you Peter for the photos -- fascinating stuff! I'm afraid that it's a bad time for me now so I'm not able to contribute as much as I would have liked. The letter written in Voigtsberg and dated 16.3.17 is from Georg's lady friend Elise Egelkraut. She seems quite anxious about the state of their friendship. She begins by informing him that she wrote him a postcard from Leipzig for which she has had no reply: "Did you not receive it? Or are you angry at me?" and ends by asking for him to write soon.

Edited 27 September , 2022 by knittinganddeath

[charlie2]

A certificate stating Georg Rödel has been deloused and is now fit to travel on the train.

 

[FROGSMILE]

9 minutes ago, charlie2 said:

A certificate stating Georg Rödel has been deloused and is now fit to travel on the train.

 

Brilliant stuff Charlie2!  I love these obscure but evocative documents that bespeak the less than romantic and glorious reality of living in the front line.  It really brings out the human factors.

Edited 27 September , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[charlie2]

Uffz. Karl Strahl 9./IR 360 went missing near La Bassee on 09.04.1918, he is not recorded as a PoW and has no known grave.

[Professor Peter Stokes]

2 hours ago, knittinganddeath said:

Hi all, just poking my head in to say hello and thank you Peter for the photos -- fascinating stuff! I'm afraid that it's a bad time for me now so I'm not able to contribute as much as I would have liked. The letter written in Voigtsberg and dated 16.3.17 is from Georg's lady friend Elise Egelkraut. She seems quite anxious about the state of their friendship. She begins by informing him that she wrote him a postcard from Leipzig for which she has had no reply: "Did you not receive it? Or are you angry at me?" and ends by asking for him to write soon.

Dear Knitting and death and Charlie 2 - many thanks - really fascinating and indeed moving to hear. Very much brings the documents alive and connected to real people.

[JWK]

Georg Rödel and Karl Strahl are both on the Verlustliste (Casualtylist) nr 1939

Georg: http://des.genealogy.net/search/show/4118488

Karl: http://des.genealogy.net/search/show/8180650

 

Otto Blume (the one who got the EKII) is on list nr 1938

http://des.genealogy.net/search/show/8189200

 

For the same money it could be a total coincidence, or these are the men the papers were for. Who knows?

 

Why did Georg (if he was the one taken POW) had papers of two of his army-buddies with him?

Love the entry on his Urlaubsschein: "Permitted to wear civilian clothes: NO", but he wás allowed to take a fast train.

 

 

Edited 27 September , 2022 by JWK

[charlie2]

6 minutes ago, JWK said:

these three men were in the same regiment.

All were from IR 360

Otto Blume presumably died of wounds in a British hospital, he is buried in Etaples military cemetery https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/6000870/otto-blume/