Sgt. William W. Anderson 48252 (96th Field Co?) RE

[brianmorris547]

4 hours ago, Ivor Anderson said:

Thank you. Just arrived this morning. Working on the revised theory that he was with 96th FC RE.

e.g. Spr Charles Edwin Chapman 45642 landed in France on 24 July 1915 with the 96th FC.

He died shortly after on 5 August 1915: https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/268077/c-e-chapman/

Others on the same page (1915 star, Ancestry) have the same entry date as William Anderson:

Cecil Trevivian has a surviving pension record showing he was with 96th FC RE: https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/1114/images/MIUK1914A_118725-00929?treeid=&personid=&hintid=&queryId=c4decdcf00facce1f418618bdcb8211e&usePUB=true&_phsrc=qzF2488&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&pId=1012858

Ivor

45632 C Trevivian and 45633 A C Teague are both named in the Times OCL 11/10/1916 under Wounded - RE.

Brian

 

[Ivor Anderson]

On 09/10/2022 at 16:07, brianmorris547 said:

My gf is named in the Times OCL 11/10/1916 under Wounded - RE

Thanks Brian, Same list as your grandfather then. It is said that it usually took 5-6 weeks for wounded to appear in the casualty lists.

It looks like they were wounded at Guillemont on  3-4th Sept?

 

 

Edited 12 October , 2022 by Ivor Anderson
Additional Info

[charlie962]

Ivor. Following on from an earlier post I made re Findmypast indexing, here are the first few men whose service records survive in some form and have a connection with 96th Field Co RE at some time.

There are quite a range of numbers, incl the last man who was a TF and posted to the Company in 1918. Just to give you a sample you can check out on Ancestry for possible patterns. If it proves to useful and you would like me to list more, I can do so, slowly. There look to be over a 100 records that come up. 

Charlie

The A's and B's:

50913 Allan 

166702 Bardner

100780 Barker 

57041 Bell 

167564 Blackmore 

62108 Blakelock

48692 Booth 

50906 Bradbury 

223312 Bradley 

185387 Brenton 

51290 Broom 

48710 Brown 

61842 Buckingham

62026 Burgoyne 

442406 Burslem

 

[Ivor Anderson]

45 minutes ago, charlie962 said:

men whose service records survive in some form and have a connection with 96th Field Co RE at some time.

Thanks Charlie. I'll check some of them out.

e.g. Alfred William Booth 48692 entered France on 24 July 1915 (prev enlisted aged 19 in 1900 as 6571 - SR for pre WW1 on Ancestry).

      Albert Brown 48710 has a MIC entry date of 23 July 1915 (SR says 'embarked') - enlisted 7 Sept 1914 - SWB on discharge 31 July 1917. Service Record: https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/1219/images/miuk1914e_124314-00173?treeid=&personid=&hintid=&queryId=a49972a65ae710b1a9437e178596096e&usePUB=true&_phsrc=qzF2507&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&pId=41207

James Adamson Allan 50913 - 96th FC - MIC gives entry date of 24 July 1915 - SR https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/1219/images/miuk1914d_120425-00512?treeid=&personid=&hintid=&queryId=c5b3c18321f974744b43706486ff54d0&usePUB=true&_phsrc=qzF2511&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&pId=12124

Eric Broom 51290 - enlisted Sept 1914 - 96th FC RE, entry date 24 July 1915 - SR https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/1219/images/miuk1914e_124140-00622?treeid=&personid=&hintid=&queryId=f1efa0dde6b063d3265b827d1bce2722&usePUB=true&_phsrc=qzF2517&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&pId=37636

Edited 12 October , 2022 by Ivor Anderson

[charlie962]

2 hours ago, Ivor Anderson said:

e.g. Alfred William Booth 48692 entered France on 24 July 1915 (prev enlisted aged 19 in 1900 as 6571 - SR for pre WW1 on Ancestry).

His prewar no was 6571. His 1914 attestation (per new SvcRecord) no was 48692 attest 5/9/14. Trf to 96thFC 24/10/14. Embarked 24/7/15. Wounded 27/9/17.

[Ivor Anderson]

Thanks Charlie,

William Bradburn 50906 enlisted 18 Sept 1914, entered France on 24 July 1915 (MIC & star roll). SR shows he served with 96th FC RE - discharge docs: https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/1219/images/miuk1914e_124079-00006?treeid=&personid=&hintid=&queryId=83bcebb503589f175b0a3bd1c35d8b13&usePUB=true&_phsrc=qzF2522&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&pId=48084

These men also seem to be 96th (Ancestry):                        (Charles Rist, Harry Davey & William Murdock have no SRs to check their unit)

Edited 13 October , 2022 by Ivor Anderson
Additional Info

[Ivor Anderson]

John William Doxey 50915 went to France with the 96th on 24 July 1915 and got the MSM while with them, as a CQMS (Ancestry image):

Edited 13 October , 2022 by Ivor Anderson

[Ivor Anderson]

49641 Sgt Kenneth Campbell Kemp went to France 24 July 1915 and was commissioned 4 March 1916:

Robert Young Plane 49628 got a DCM and was later commissioned:

A few more RE candidates for 96th FC RE (Ancestry star roll):

Edited 13 October , 2022 by Ivor Anderson
Additional Info

[Ivor Anderson]

DCM citation for Sjt. Robert Young Plane (Comm Jan 1918) - LG 9 July 1917: https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/30172/supplement/6817

                                             

Commission Jan 1918 into RNR: https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/30505/page/1544

Edited 13 October , 2022 by Ivor Anderson

[brianmorris547]

21 hours ago, Ivor Anderson said:

 

 

Ivor

The reason that 96 FC had more casualties on 03/09/1916 at Guillemont than 84 FC is explained in the report in the WD of the CRE. Instead of waiting for the Infantry to take their objectives and then going to consolidate and build strong points, 96 FC went Over the Top with the Infantry of 59 Brigade. There are some sketch maps in the WD of the CRE with 1 to 8 numbered in circles. There is a report by the OC 96 FC in the WD of 59 Infantry Brigade, which is not included in the CRE papers, and this explains what 1 to 8 were.

From the Times OCL 11/10/1916 there are 121 names in the Wounded RE List. These are the names that I can put to 96 FC wounded at Guillemont. 

48683 Frederick Andrews - 24/07 - Casualty List HA 2739.

48694 Robert H Carling - 24/07 - WO 363.

94674 John Delaney - 24/07 - Casualty List HA 2739 and mentioned in the WD 20 Div A&QMG 01/05/1916 FGCM.

87038 Robert Drane - No 1914/15 Star - WO 363.

45788 George Fisher - 24/07 - Casualty List HA 2728.

45632 Cecil Trevivian - 24/07 - WO 364.

89106 Robert Turnbull - 23/07 - WO 363.

Others with a date of 24/07

95171 Albert Deavin, 89465 Harold E Harrison, 95182 Walter Huxtable, 45921 John Ritson (MM 1916 96 FC), 63485 John A Russell (Hospital admission in 1917 with 156 FC but possible transfer after being wounded in 1916), 45633 Alfred T Teague, 45693 John Thwaites and 49163 William P Williams.

Others with a date of 23/07 not named in the WD of the CRE as being wounded with 84 FC

48457 James Christon, 47783 Harry Cordwell, 45929 Edward Cornock, 63428 James Heagney and 45704 John H Moore.

Others with a date of 25/07

46190 Albert Beard, 89420 George Gough and 48260 George R Lawrence.

In addition there are 30 names, including 2 County Palatine RE, my GF 83123 John Morris and 83090 John W Mabbott, with no 1914 - 15 dates.

I have not found 20 Div RE wounded at Guillemont in any other list.

Brian

 

 

 

 

Edited 13 October , 2022 by brianmorris547
typo

[charlie962]

Ivor, it is not clear with all those men you are now listing of you are sure they are 96th Co?

[Ivor Anderson]

Thanks Brian.

11 minutes ago, charlie962 said:

it is not clear with all those men you are now listing of you are sure they are 96th Co?

That's true Charlie. It's not possible to prove them all with certainty. They are possibilities due to their entry date. I am deleting any who prove not to be.

[Ivor Anderson]

Moving on to my main 'needle in the haystack' - William Anderson - it seems likely that he enlisted c.Sept 1914 aged 18+ (possibly with prior service?).

Some possible William W Andersons pre 1896 - work in progress - subject to elimination:

William Wilson Anderson was born in Hunslet district in Q3 1884.

William W Anderson b. 20 Oct 1889 (Berkshire 1889)

Walter William Anderson b. Q4 1889, Paddington

William W Anderson b. 12 August 1890 (living Lancs 1939)

William Wilson Anderson was born Cannongate, Edinburgh 24 Nov 1891

William Wilson Anderson b. 7 March 1892 Gateshead

William W Anderson b. 22 June 1893 (Birkenhead 1939)

William Walter Anderson b. 2 Sept 1896 Birmingham

 

Edited 13 October , 2022 by Ivor Anderson
Additional Info

[charlie962]

1 hour ago, Ivor Anderson said:

They are possibilities due to their entry date. I am deleting any who prove not to be.

Ok, understood. Clearly with an embarkation date 23/5 and presumed landing 24/5 then all those with 25/5 on the roll can be ignored. But not clear cut otherwise. I'll check some of your names.

[charlie962]

One of the reasons it is worth going through the service records for known 96Co men is that very occasionally there are promotions or disciplinaires that mention other men of the unit. But a long  task!

[charlie962]

4 hours ago, Ivor Anderson said:

few more RE candidates for 96th FC RE (Ancestry star roll):

Hibbert. No SR. died 1916. CWGC says 96FC.

Baxter. No SR but was MiD 1917. Perhaps LG gives unit(mid card does not)?

Heath. No SR. Died 1918.CWGC gives 96FC.

Shaw. Not found.

Randall. SR. No sign of other than 18 Div Sig Co and disability claim says France 25/5/15-..

[Ivor Anderson]

1 hour ago, charlie962 said:

Baxter. No SR but was MiD 1917. Perhaps LG gives unit(mid card does not)?

Doesn't even say RE: https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/30427/supplement/13080

Norman Shaw 49572 - MIC confirms 24 July 1915 entry.

Edited 13 October , 2022 by Ivor Anderson
Additional Info

[charlie962]

2 hours ago, Ivor Anderson said:

Norman Shaw 49572 - MIC confirms 24 July 1915 entry.

??

[charlie962]

9 hours ago, Ivor Anderson said:

Ancestry star roll):

Already commented on first extract. The next two:-

Nothing further found on any except 

Cumming David, SWB Roll, attest 5/9/14, disch 12/12/17 from 'M' Company, sickness

 

[Ivor Anderson]

Thanks Charlie. We've certainly established that 96th FC disembarked on 24 July 1915 and that William Anderson was likely with them. Hopefully our wider searches will help others. The 20th Division had quite a mix of units from a wide geographical area. William W Anderson could still be from anywhere, but most likely England.

Edited 13 October , 2022 by Ivor Anderson

[charlie962]

The RE museum haven't (yet?) participated in the Ogilby Muster project. But there is no doubt something helpful in their archives ?

[Ivor Anderson]

I'll add that inquiry to my long list, in order of priority.

[brianmorris547]

It is complicated because there was a pool of Sappers at No 4 General Base Depot RE at Rouen and men were sent to whichever Unit needed reinforcements. Men who were sick or wounded were sometimes discharged from hospital to No 4 GBD and they could have then been sent to any RE Unit. I have been through all the 1916 RE War Diaries (including the Army Troops Companies, Tunnelling Companies, Labour Companies and Special Companies). Some name the reinforcements from 4 GBD either in the body of the WD or on Field Returns but most WDs just record numbers. 

Brian

EDIT: Here is an example. AF B 103 from the Service Record of 61842 Thomas Buckingham. Courtesy TNA WO 363.

Edited 15 October , 2022 by brianmorris547
additional info

[charlie962]

12 hours ago, brianmorris547 said:

Others with a date of 23/07 not named in the WD of the CRE as being wounded with 84 FC

48457 James Christon, 47783 Harry Cordwell, 45929 Edward Cornock, 63428 James Heagney and 45704 John H Moore.

Both Cordwell and Heagney are quoted as being the witness for Joseph Allen 50053's misdemeanours in 1915, before embarkation. Allen was 96 FC (per his service file- NB also DCM) so presumably were Cordwell and Heagney ? Note there was clearly confusion with a page noted 50913, crossed out and renumbered 50053. I suspect the crossing out was incorrect but it doesn't change the 96FC deduction since both Allen's were in 96!!

Christon died 28/9/16 and cwgc says 96FC. 

I have nothing further on Cornock or Moore.

Charlie

Edited 13 October , 2022 by charlie962

[charlie962]

13 hours ago, brianmorris547 said:

Others with a date of 24/07

95171 Albert Deavin, 89465 Harold E Harrison, 95182 Walter Huxtable, 45921 John Ritson (MM 1916 96 FC), 63485 John A Russell (Hospital admission in 1917 with 156 FC but possible transfer after being wounded in 1916), 45633 Alfred T Teague, 45693 John Thwaites and 49163 William P Williams.

Deavin- nothing 

Harrison- SR but illegible company!

Huxtable- nothing 

Ritson- MM 96FC 

Russell- nothing extra

Teague- hosp admission 96FC. 

Thwaites- nothing

Williams- nothing