Shell case identification

[Toll]

Good evening all, 

Thanks in advance for any help regarding the identification of a shell a close friend of Myn obtained from a house clearance. 

I'm an avid fan of history although my knowledge is acute of The Great War, so apologies if this isn't a WW1 Shell case. (Please see the three attached pictures).

I was hoping someone may know anything about the markings and history behind this unusual find. 

I have looked briefly across the internet to try identify the origin of this find but to no avail.

The shell would seem to have been used or spent and also the engravings "Sept" which I assume is the month September and the numbers "1917" may be a clue to the date of production although I am just guessing. 

Thankyou all for taking the time to read my long winded post and I look forward to any information that the forum members can shed on this matter.

Kind regards, 

Matt

Ps. Casing was found in North East England, Hartlepool 

 

[peregrinvs]

I believe it started as a German 7.7cm cartridge case for the FK.96 field gun. Made in September 1917 by Artillerie Werkstatt Dresden. (AWDr) st is believed to mean ‘Stark’ - strengthened. 75 is a batch number.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7.7_cm_FK_96

Edited 9 December , 2022 by peregrinvs

[GWF1967]

40 minutes ago, Toll said:

Good evening all, 

Thanks in advance for any help regarding the identification of a shell a close friend of Myn obtained from a house clearance. 

I'm an avid fan of history although my knowledge is acute of The Great War, so apologies if this isn't a WW1 Shell case. (Please see the three attached pictures).

I was hoping someone may know anything about the markings and history behind this unusual find. 

I have looked briefly across the internet to try identify the origin of this find but to no avail.

The shell would seem to have been used or spent and also the engravings "Sept" which I assume is the month September and the numbers "1917" may be a clue to the date of production although I am just guessing. 

Thankyou all for taking the time to read my long winded post and I look forward to any information that the forum members can shed on this matter.

Kind regards, 

Matt

Ps. Casing was found in North East England, Hartlepool 

 

 

The casing was indeed produced in September 1917
 

Edited 9 December , 2022 by GWF1967

[Toll]

Hello GWF, 

Thankyou so much for your response! This is excellent information and also thankyou for the source. 

So with the shell being of German origin, do you think this may have been fired towards the allies? Just wondering how it came to be in the town of Hartlepool. I do know the first British soldier to die on British soil was in fact during the bombardment of Hartlepool by the name of Theophilus Jones, 16th December 1914, 29 years old School Master, who served in the Durham Light Infantry, may he rest in peace. (Please see attached photos)

Apologies if this is a little off topic, but in 40minutes 1100 shells bombarded the ship building town of Hartlepool.

[peregrinvs]

Decorated cartridge cases of this sort were mostly fashioned after WWI by French and Belgian civilians for sale to battlefield tourists. They aren’t rare and can be found all over the UK. The shell it was attached to was probably fired at the French or British, but other than that there’s not much you can say about it’s likely history. You can see some images of complete 7.7cm rounds here:

https://www.lovettartillery.com/Ammuntion_7,7cm_lFK_.htm

[Toll]

Wow I had no idea that occurred, thankyou very much peregrinvs for the information. I'm hoping to purchase the shell from my friend as a form of war art. I believe it has alot of character and stirs the imagination. Will look great on the mantle piece 😁

Also thankyou for the link, I will have a browse now.

[Toll]

Great examples of the shells on that link thankyou once more. I am envious to obtain a more intact shellcase or one which is less damaged and of course it must be non usable for safety purposes.

[GWF1967]

46 minutes ago, Toll said:

Great examples of the shells on that link thankyou once more. I am envious to obtain a more intact shellcase or one which is less damaged and of course it must be non usable for safety purposes.

I’d suggest a visit to a local militaria fair. 

[MikB]

If 7,7 cm was a German naval calibre at all, it was certainly not common, and those calibres used in the bombardment were generally far larger - 21 cm or more. If any of those ships carried 7,7 cm weapons they'd've had to approach to a dangerously close range to use them. The only practical way the case could've come to Hartlepool was with a returning soldier who'd acquired it close to the front.

[Chasemuseum]

With almost absolute certainty this was a souvenir from post war battle fields tourism. During the 20s and 30s, visiting the battlefields was an act of respect and remembrance. My mother and her parents did this in the late 20s as an aside on a holiday to Britain and Europe.

[Toll]

Indeed I totally agree, thankyou all for the input you have educated me on this topic greatly and I appreciate every bit of information. My friends friend is adamant it's authentic trench art hehe but I'm a total novice on the subject and strongly inclined to trust your sound judgments. It would be fanciful to think it was used on British soil and then dug up or found on a British site but I think we all know that it was mainly naval and air zeplin bombardment that was used to attack Britain during that era? Besides the facts of the size etc which indicates a field artillery gun was used for this particular shell. Once more thankyou all, I find this all very intriguing! 

Edited 10 December , 2022 by Toll
Missed a small detail, sorry for the editing

[trajan]

On 10/12/2022 at 17:10, MikB said:

If 7,7 cm was a German naval calibre at all, it was certainly not common, and those calibres used in the bombardment were generally far larger - 21 cm or more. If any of those ships carried 7,7 cm weapons they'd've had to approach to a dangerously close range to use them. The only practical way the case could've come to Hartlepool was with a returning soldier who'd acquired it close to the front.

If a Naval case it would have been marked accordingly, with an Imperial Reichs Crown (not Prussian crown) over an 'M' for '(Kaiserliche) Marine' - see, e.g., the mark at the top of this case above the 'C/97.98'

Julian

 

Edited 26 December , 2022 by trajan

[trajan]

On 09/12/2022 at 21:39, peregrinvs said:

I believe it started as a German 7.7cm cartridge case for the FK.96 field gun. Made in September 1917 by Artillerie Werkstatt Dresden. (AWDr) st is believed to mean ‘Stark’ - strengthened. 75 is a batch number.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7.7_cm_FK_96

Just to add that 'St' for Stark or strengthened, indicates it was suitable for a stronger explosive propellant introduced by German in - IIRC- 1905.