WW1 uniform Royal Fusiliers - depicted on TV

[AussieKerrie]

Hello, I’m making a miniature uniform for a 19” teddy bear (Captain Arthur Hastings Bear) and would like to confirm a couple of details please?

1. In the Mysterious Affair at Styles, Hastings, when he is still a Lieutenant, wears a ribbon bar that is a bit of a mystery to me. It looks like the 1914 star, but the rest of the bar looks like a gold and maroon stripe, which I’m not familiar with.

2. While wearing this uniform, when his tunic was draped over his shoulders, he has a short gold metal chain hanging from his right top pocket, about 7 inches long. Just dangling. Nothing hangs from it, like a watch for example, does anyone know what the chain was for and did it have a specific name?

Later, at afternoon tea when his buttons are done up, (as shown in the photo)  the chain goes across to the opposite pocket, but from the way the fabric sits flat, the chain doesn’t appear to have a watch or anything else attached 

3. At the beginning of the episode he wears his khaki tunic with suspenders and khaki trousers, later he wears his tunic with his Sam Browne and breeches.

Could you tell me the names of each of these uniforms please?

I hope members can help me with these queries, I’d like to make the uniform as authentic as I can, while learning as much as possible about it.

with thanks, in anticipation.

kind regards

Kerrie

[HERITAGE PLUS]

The fictional character Hastings first met Poirot in Belgium. The ribbon I think is likely to be  for the Belgian Croix de Guerre.

Dave

 

Edited 11 December , 2022 by HERITAGE PLUS

[AussieKerrie]

Thank you Dave, I’d never thought of it being from overseas. I’ll dig into that further, thanks very much for this lead.

regards

kerrie

[Alan24]

1914 Star with Rosette but no BWM or VM. I would have thought that could be likely between 1917 &1919 only. 

[Keith_history_buff]

I think there's some inaccuracy here, and a continuity error has crept in.

The 1914 Star medal ribbon was issued in 1918. The BWM & VM ribbons were issued 1919. After this, the rose emblem for the 1914 Star came into being with the announcement of Army Order no. 361 of 16 October 1919. 

The clasp was available at a time after the other two campaign medal ribbons were available. You may want to opt for only the ribbon and no rose, if the scenario took place at the start of 1919. There have been other threads that mention when the ribbons were available. Whilst officers did have to apply for medals, I would have thought that anyone continuing their service post-war would have made it a high priority to apply, whilst I can appreciate that those back in Civvy Street may have taken their time in applying.

[FROGSMILE]

3 hours ago, AussieKerrie said:

Thank you Dave, I’d never thought of it being from overseas. I’ll dig into that further, thanks very much for this lead.

regards

kerrie

The chain you describe is for a pocket watch Kerrie.  There’s usually a T-bar, hook, or spring clip on one end and the watch on the other end.  One popular method of carriage was to have the watch in one pocket and the end of the chain fastened within the other pocket (there were a variety of ways to do this latter).  Which breast pocket the watch went in was usually determined by whether the individual was left, or right handed. The chain was commonly suspended in a shallow curve between the two.  You can easily simulate this with a suitable, small ladies wrist watch, and neck chain. 

Edited 11 December , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[Andrew Upton]

5 hours ago, HERITAGE PLUS said:

...The fictional character Hastings first met Poirot in Belgium. The ribbon I think is likely to be  for the Belgian Croix de Guerre...

Hastings has the ribbon up for the French Croix de Guerre, eg:

 

Edited 11 December , 2022 by Andrew Upton

[corisande]

if it helps, a slightly better version of his medal bar

[AussieKerrie]

That does help thank you, I expect it was the sunlight that made the colours look different. I managed to buy online a miniature Croix de Guerre and the ribbon last night. I’ve been focusing on making the uniform with ribbon bar but now also want to make a dress uniform with medals. 
 

[corisande]

 As a Collector of Teddy Bears myself, I have a vested interest in this thread 

[AussieKerrie]

6 hours ago, FROGSMILE said:

The chain you describe is for a pocket watch Kerrie.  There’s usually a T-bar, hook, or spring clip on one end and the watch on the other end.  One popular method of carriage was to have the watch in one pocket and the end of the chain fastened within the other pocket (there were a variety of ways to do this latter).  Which breast pocket the watch went in was usually determined by whether the individual was left, or right handed. The chain was commonly suspended in a shallow curve between the two.  You can easily simulate this with a suitable, small ladies wrist watch, and neck chain. 

Thank you. As luck would have it I have a nice silver fob with chain dated 1906. It isn’t gold metal like Arthur’s, but there will need to be some compromises. This one is a sovereign case but I could use it with the chain as the initials are I H, (open to it being handed down to Arthur perhaps.) Or I could attach my old nurses style watch. Arthur is right handed but there does seem to be a small button sized disc hanging from the chain in the screen shot. The absent watch could be explained away that it was damaged when he was injured and it was away for repair. The photo of the chain just dangling is poor (screen shot is from the dvd) but by the time he goes to Styles, the chain is fastened across, so the watch could now be back in his pocket.

[AussieKerrie]

41 minutes ago, corisande said:

 As a Collector of Teddy Bears myself, I have a vested interest in this thread 

That’s nice to know, the completion will take some months as the smaller fusiliers buttons have been challenging to track down. I took some liberty and have made him a member of the Royal (London) Fusiliers. He wasn’t Welsh, Irish or Scots so it seemed logical to do so, but there are fewer of the small ‘London’ buttons around. I couldn’t get his lapel insignia at all so will be using cap badges instead. The size proportions are a concern, but using authentic WW1 insignia is the higher priority. I located a khaki knit tie on eBay that I can tailor make to fit. The knee high boots as you can appreciate for a bear are not an option, so I’m going to make brown leather gaters instead, which I read some officers wore.

The cloth pips can’t be found so I’ll embroider my own, but I do have the full set of brass pips for his dress uniform. 
I was worried my query might sound silly on such a serious forum but as you can see, the right outcome for the uniform took priority.

A surplus store in Australia had some WW2 wool khaki jackets, still crated in wax paper. I bought one to cut for his uniform fabric. It’s the perfect colour and feel and surprisingly inexpensive. 
An old pair of beige moleskin trousers will be right to cut up for his breeches and khaki shoe laces for the thread lacing at the front of his breeches. 
I located a roll of the original tape for his cuffs and even have a WW1 wound stripe bar.

I’ll be sure to post progress photos once all the bits and pieces have arrived in the post and I can start stitching.

regards

Kerrie

[AussieKerrie]

11 hours ago, Keith_history_buff said:

I think there's some inaccuracy here, and a continuity error has crept in.

The 1914 Star medal ribbon was issued in 1918. The BWM & VM ribbons were issued 1919. After this, the rose emblem for the 1914 Star came into being with the announcement of Army Order no. 361 of 16 October 1919. 

The clasp was available at a time after the other two campaign medal ribbons were available. You may want to opt for only the ribbon and no rose, if the scenario took place at the start of 1919. There have been other threads that mention when the ribbons were available. Whilst officers did have to apply for medals, I would have thought that anyone continuing their service post-war would have made it a high priority to apply, whilst I can appreciate that those back in Civvy Street may have taken their time in applying.

Thank you, the story for the episode was set in 1917. An Agatha Christie blog mentions the Ypres newsreel footage Arthur watches at the beginning mentioned ‘General Haig’, but by early January, Haig had been promoted to Field Marshall. My bear’s uniform will be the rank of Captain, as that is how I think of his character.   The program crew seem to have taken a lot of effort with the smaller details for Arthur but there are bound to be some inaccuracies, as there will be with my bear. But I will do my best to represent him as well as I can, out of respect for those that served.

regards

Kerrie

[FROGSMILE]

58 minutes ago, AussieKerrie said:

Thank you. As luck would have it I have a nice silver fob with chain dated 1906. It isn’t gold metal like Arthur’s, but there will need to be some compromises. This one is a sovereign case but I could use it with the chain as the initials are I H, (open to it being handed down to Arthur perhaps.) Or I could attach my old nurses style watch. Arthur is right handed but there does seem to be a small button sized disc hanging from the chain in the screen shot. The absent watch could be explained away that it was damaged when he was injured and it was away for repair. The photo of the chain just dangling is poor (screen shot is from the dvd) but by the time he goes to Styles, the chain is fastened across, so the watch could now be back in his pocket.

Yes the disc on the end of his dangling chain is called a fob and is usually a little short of the T-bar or hook.  The fob can be of any shape and is simply something to grasp when fumbling to find the chain, in your example it is a cross shape.

Edited 11 December , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[Andrew Upton]

2 hours ago, AussieKerrie said:

...The cloth pips can’t be found so I’ll embroider my own...

The khaki embroidered rank pips at full scale are quite commonly replicated in sets - SoF for just one example:

https://www.sofmilitary.co.uk/khaki-rank-pips.html

If you are talking about at a more reduced scale it is worth looking out for those made for wear with Brigadier rank, which utilised a smaller scale and can be found sometimes, eg:

[AussieKerrie]

47 minutes ago, Andrew Upton said:

The khaki embroidered rank pips at full scale are quite commonly replicated in sets - SoF for just one example:

https://www.sofmilitary.co.uk/khaki-rank-pips.html

If you are talking about at a more reduced scale it is worth looking out for those made for wear with Brigadier rank, which utilised a smaller scale and can be found sometimes, eg:

Thank you Andrew, this is very helpful.

[FROGSMILE]

On 11/12/2022 at 09:12, AussieKerrie said:

Hello, I’m making a miniature uniform for a 19” teddy bear (Captain Arthur Hastings Bear) and would like to confirm a couple of details please?

1. In the Mysterious Affair at Styles, Hastings, when he is still a Lieutenant, wears a ribbon bar that is a bit of a mystery to me. It looks like the 1914 star, but the rest of the bar looks like a gold and maroon stripe, which I’m not familiar with.

2. While wearing this uniform, when his tunic was draped over his shoulders, he has a short gold metal chain hanging from his right top pocket, about 7 inches long. Just dangling. Nothing hangs from it, like a watch for example, does anyone know what the chain was for and did it have a specific name?

Later, at afternoon tea when his buttons are done up, (as shown in the photo)  the chain goes across to the opposite pocket, but from the way the fabric sits flat, the chain doesn’t appear to have a watch or anything else attached 

3. At the beginning of the episode he wears his khaki tunic with suspenders and khaki trousers, later he wears his tunic with his Sam Browne and breeches.

Could you tell me the names of each of these uniforms please?

I hope members can help me with these queries, I’d like to make the uniform as authentic as I can, while learning as much as possible about it.

with thanks, in anticipation.

kind regards

Kerrie

The name of the uniform is “officers service dress” Kerrie.  It was first introduced in 1902 at the end of the Boer War, but it’s design was modified to have a longer skirt and an open, rever collar, to facilitate wear with a shirt and tie in 1912.  The colour of the uniform was described at the time as “Drab”, which was a brownish shade of khaki.

Buttons were shiny brass but allowed to go dull in the trenches, but special, brownish bronze badges were introduced specifially for this uniform.  Collar badges were usually in facing pairs and intended to be the same size as for the cap. If rank stars are worn on the shoulder straps then they too should be the same shade as the badges, but if on the cuff then in cloth.  Perhaps you could miniaturise metal badges using a 3D printer.

The equipment worn by the officer to carry his personal gear was made of brown [usually] leather based on a design first associated with a one-armed British general officer by the name of “Sam-Browne”.  It’s most by basic configuration when out of the trenches was just the waist belt plus one of the two shoulder braces worn diagonally.  Over time this arrangement has become completely synonymous with an officer’s appearance.

The cap worn with the uniform is described as a “forage cap” and the all drab version that then became standard wear was introduced in 1905. 

 

 

Edited 12 December , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[FROGSMILE]

Edited 12 December , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[AussieKerrie]

5 hours ago, FROGSMILE said:

The name of the uniform is “officers service dress” Kerrie.  It was first introduced in 1902 at the end of the Boer War, but it’s design was modified to have a longer skirt and an open, rever collar, to facilitate wear with a shirt and tie in 1912.  The colour of the uniform was described at the time as “Drab”, which was a brownish shade of khaki.

Buttons were shiny brass but allowed to go dull in the trenches, but special, brownish bronze badges were introduced specifially for this uniform.  Collar badges were usually in facing pairs and intended to be the same size as for the cap. If rank stars are worn on the shoulder straps then they too should be the same shade as the badges, but if on the cuff then in cloth.  Perhaps you could miniaturise metal badges using a 3D printer.

The equipment worn by the officer to carry his personal gear was made of brown [usually] leather based on a design first associated with a one-armed British general officer by the name of “Sam-Browne”.  It’s most by basic configuration when out of the trenches was just the waist belt plus one of the two shoulder braces worn diagonally.  Over time this arrangement has become completely synonymous with an officer’s appearance.

The cap worn with the uniform is described as a “forage cap” and the all drab version that then became standard wear was introduced in 1905. 

 

 

Thank you so much for this very helpful information and excellent quality photographs.

It’s good to know the cap and lapel badges were of the same size, the ones I have are certainly tarnished but now I can leave them that way.

I have one badge a smaller size and another to arrive in the post, which would fit better on the lapel.

I have a cloth forage cap but need to tailor it down to size. A girl’s brown leather skinny belt will fill the role of the leather band on the cap.

the Sam Browne I can adapt from a leather belt and harness I found.

I’ll keep trying to track down the smaller size buttons, so far I have enough medium 19mm brass ones to use on the tunic. Plus the two for the epaulettes. (Were they different to the ones on the front?) I only have 1 x 14 mm bronze one, it is the ideal size, but not sure how I can incorporate it to the uniform.

I found the cloth pips online last night. 

There are still a few things to arrive in the post, including the miniature ribbon trio bar. I located the Belgium Croix de Guerre miniature ribbon and medal online here in Australia so will have those in a few weeks. They’ll be replicas rather than the genuine article, but it will help complete the look.

It’s all coming together.

The photo shows some of the smaller bits and pieces I have so far, plus there are the fabrics and leather belt/harness for the Sam Browne. They won’t be exact but should definitely be a better representation than the uniformed bears that are available on the market. I have a couple of these and even though they look smart, their lack of authenticity is what made me want to do a better uniform if I could.  I’m making good progress with my foraging.

Kind regards

Kerrie

 

 

[FROGSMILE]

18 minutes ago, AussieKerrie said:

Thank you so much for this very helpful information and excellent quality photographs.

It’s good to know the cap and lapel badges were of the same size, the ones I have are certainly tarnished but now I can leave them that way.

I have one badge a smaller size and another to arrive in the post, which would fit better on the lapel.

I have a cloth forage cap but need to tailor it down to size. A girl’s brown leather skinny belt will fill the role of the leather band on the cap.

the Sam Browne I can adapt from a leather belt and harness I found.

I’ll keep trying to track down the smaller size buttons, so far I have enough medium 19mm brass ones to use on the tunic. Plus the two for the epaulettes. (Were they different to the ones on the front?) I only have 1 x 14 mm bronze one, it is the ideal size, but not sure how I can incorporate it to the uniform.

I found the cloth pips online last night. 

There are still a few things to arrive in the post, including the miniature ribbon trio bar. I located the Belgium Croix de Guerre miniature ribbon and medal online here in Australia so will have those in a few weeks. They’ll be replicas rather than the genuine article, but it will help complete the look.

It’s all coming together.

The photo shows some of the smaller bits and pieces I have so far, plus there are the fabrics and leather belt/harness for the Sam Browne. They won’t be exact but should definitely be a better representation than the uniformed bears that are available on the market. I have a couple of these and even though they look smart, their lack of authenticity is what made me want to do a better uniform if I could.  I’m making good progress with my foraging.

Kind regards

Kerrie

 

 

That all looks very good Kerrie, you have a cap badge and one of the old pattern collar badges that a few Royal Fusiliers battalion’s were still using (there were three different types all together and any of them will do).  If you can find another one you will have a suitable pair for the lapels.  There were three sizes of buttons.  The very smallest were used on the caps to secure the leather chin strap.  The medium size were used on shoulder straps and pocket flaps.  The largest ones for the jacket front fastening and greatcoats too.  I suggest you use the small and medium only and just put something proportionally smaller for the cap.  I think you will be able to find leather and other bits to make up the ensemble and you can always ask any more questions here.

 

Edited 12 December , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[Andrew Upton]

3 hours ago, AussieKerrie said:

...I located the Belgium Croix de Guerre miniature ribbon and medal online here in Australia so will have those in a few weeks...

As I mentioned above - Hastings has the ribbon up for the French Croix de Guerre, not the Belgian Croix de Guerre, eg:

 

[AussieKerrie]

2 hours ago, Andrew Upton said:

As I mentioned above - Hastings has the ribbon up for the French Croix de Guerre, not the Belgian Croix de Guerre, eg:

 

Thank you, that was my mistake. One of the other replies thought it was the Belgium Croix de Guerre, and as Ypres is in Belgium, where Hastings fought, and later met Poirot, I went off half cocked. I should have studied the stripes on the ribbon bar more intensely, I can certainly see the difference now. I have now managed to locate the miniature French Croix de Guerre. The miniature ribbon I’ll need to keep looking for. I had no problem finding the French Croix de Guerre full width ribbon and can always use the extra buttons, medal & ribbons on a medal board as a comparison example.

regards

Kerrie

[Andrew Upton]

12 hours ago, AussieKerrie said:

...I have now managed to locate the miniature French Croix de Guerre. The miniature ribbon I’ll need to keep looking for...

If you have deep pockets, or just buy to use a small amount and then resell the rest:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/265746750788?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=710-134428-41853-0&mkcid=2&mkscid=101&itemid=265746750788&targetid=1405282543919&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=9045625&poi=&campaignid=17218284410&mkgroupid=142217514411&rlsatarget=pla-1405282543919&abcId=9300867&merchantid=9921424&gclid=Cj0KCQiA4uCcBhDdARIsAH5jyUlwZ_0ZxEmCB5vAGqKgOWq75UwXBsceBRmqiT9WcPBjgwZAr2JywKoaAs5mEALw_wcB

[FROGSMILE]

13 hours ago, AussieKerrie said:

Thank you, that was my mistake. One of the other replies thought it was the Belgium Croix de Guerre, and as Ypres is in Belgium, where Hastings fought, and later met Poirot, I went off half cocked. I should have studied the stripes on the ribbon bar more intensely, I can certainly see the difference now. I have now managed to locate the miniature French Croix de Guerre. The miniature ribbon I’ll need to keep looking for. I had no problem finding the French Croix de Guerre full width ribbon and can always use the extra buttons, medal & ribbons on a medal board as a comparison example.

regards

Kerrie

As he’s a Teddy Bear, and the medals are quite similar, I don’t think that you need worry too much as to whether you have the French, or the Belgian ribbon Kerrie, it’s a minor point within the context of all the effort that you’re making to get his principal uniform features right.  Indeed I thought that your earlier comment about a nod towards Poirot’s nationality was a good one.  Especially so when you consider how upset he invariably was when mistaken for a Frenchman.  Good luck with your endeavour, I hope that we’ll be able to see your finished product.

Edited 13 December , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[AussieKerrie]

3 hours ago, FROGSMILE said:

As he’s a Teddy Bear, and the medals are quite similar, I don’t think that you need worry too much as to whether you have the French, or the Belgian ribbon Kerrie, it’s a minor point within the context of all the effort that you’re making to get his principal uniform features right.  Indeed I thought that your earlier comment about a nod towards Poirot’s nationality was a good one.  Especially so when you consider how upset he invariably was when mistaken for a Frenchman.  Good luck with your endeavour, I hope that we’ll be able to see your finished product.

Thank you, I did start to get a bit concerned about getting it wrong, even though some of the smaller things have to be diy compromises. I nearly bought a taller bear yesterday so that the Sam Browne would fit better. Thankfully I stopped myself, but that was mainly because he would have been a foot taller than his colleague Poirot Bear. So things will be out of proportion, but hopefully a respectful representation. I will definitely share the photos of the finished uniform on here. 
To think I could have just put him in his plus fours and a tweed jacket, but the idea of an authentic looking uniform developed a life of its own. 

It must be rather nerve wracking for the tv show design teams, to get all these details right, knowing that thousands of viewers look at every tiny detail for accuracy. For a fictional character no less. I’ve realised a small component of how much research they must have put into the program now.
I appreciate your kind words and the help I’ve received here.

regards

Kerrie